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Why's Beijing So Worried About Western Values Affecting China's Youth

Discussion in 'General News from other countries' started by Internationalteacher, 5 Feb 2017.

  1. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA Well-Known Member

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    There are no real limitations on the internet. It's a myth. The government fully knows that I am using a VPN right now and they allow it because they want foreign experts to be here. My wife uses two free VPNs, supplied by Chinese companies, and she plays on Facebook every single day. In some hotels in the major cities the internet is automatically open: they do not want to discourage foreign business. In other words, it is all about the money. As, perhaps, it should be. The GDP of my province is incredible. The internet is open.

    If you want to talk about "watching everything", then I can assure you that the USA is the king of that. The USA is the most surveilled country in the world, by far. Trust me, I know. I retired in 2010. The Titan is not to be escaped, especially near its building with no windows.

    Now, to change the subject: things you generally see in China that you do not generally see in the US or Thailand are
    1) lack of drug use 2) deep family involvement in the education of the kids 3) absence of damaging cultural influences such as pornography in the US and the legitimation of violence (rap music that valorizes violence, gangs) 4) the endemic violence one sees in America is pretty much absent in China, from what I can tell 5) in China you do not have one segment of the population that is not working. In my opinion, this is the also a problem in Thailand, but in a different way. If most young people had the real hope of gaining an HONEST, normal, highly-paying job, Thailand would be different.

    Look at it formally: Xi Jinping is correct to warn against Western cultural influences when his country is winning. Do not be surprised if China is the most important country in the world in 5 YEARS. This is not what I want to see, but the signs are all there. It really depends on what happens with Mr. Trump, with what he does, a leader who is being undermined at this very moment by some of the citizens of Great Britain (because of his upcoming visit), Germany (who hate his guts), France (who are wetting the bed), and the United States!

    What is the big deal? Xi Jinping was just in Davos at the Economic Form, and he gave a speech just like Bill Clinton would have given--cooperation, open markets, stability--to resounding applause! China is open for business, but the US is closing off. Let's see how long it takes the ship to sink. Get what I implied is coming? China = the new USA

    "We're in the money!"

    By the way, have you ever heard of the Golden Rule? Right: he who has the gold makes the rules.

    Don't be naive and say the West is going to win Hegel's "atheltic contest of the world". It is starting to look as if China is going to win.

    Or, profoundly, who is to say that Thailand is not right, that its system will not endure, that it will not be the last man standing? Have a backwards-looking, anti-critical-thinking, deeply conservative, racially and culturally unified country that is skeptical of what Americans would call "hard work", or "do it on your own". Perhaps it is better to limit free speech? Perhaps it is better to have a system of education that makes sure to quash any resistance to the group identity (supplied from above)? School is still out, but we will surely see it unfold in our lifetime.

    I am not talking about what I want to see happen. I am just talking about reality. The US is floundering, is borrowing money from other countries to pay entitlements, is deeply in debt, is in conflict with traditional allies (Great Britain, France, Germany), is bickering, violent, with deep racial problems, losing wars, at war, has rampant drug use (opiods, meth), the Constitution is under threat because of the degree it gathers info on its own people, and is generally off course.

    China does not seem this way at all. It is working, building stuff. "Cities with wide shoulders." Unless something changes fast, the US is going to be #2. After second place is third place, and after that is Argentina. The basic point is that multi-kulti does not work.

    Sabaii Dee

    Titan

    Titan.jpg
     
    Last edited: 8 Feb 2017
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  2. sirchai

    sirchai Well-Known Member

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    You've made some great and valid points, thanks. I'm absolutely happy that I grew up in a free world full of Rock N' Roll all around me, instead of people who seem to live in a virtual world only.

    We really talked to each other and friendship was very important to all of us. If there's a problem we talked about it and tried to find a solution together.

    The Chinese youth doesn't seem to be much different to Thai youth where mobile phones and games, including the hourly status updates on Facebook, (the Chinese kids might use a VPN to do so) and the usual silence when you see a group of students at a restaurant, too busy to talk to each other.

    Honestly speaking, it scares the shite out of me. But quite a few of us are sitting many hours behind a screen and I'm not talking about the mods now.

    If there wouldn't be so many porn-webpage addicts, there wouldn't be so many webpages, right?

    But how can I tell my son that he's online for too long when I've got my PC running all day long?

    I've worked with a 21 year old guy from Nessyland who didn't even know how to book an online flight from a bigger city in Isaan to the capital city of lost Angels.

    He had no idea how to log into Air Asia's website and follow the instructions? They even offer payments at 7 Eleven, so no credit card needed. Sorry, Mai Kau Tchai.

    He had an I Pad but only knew how to use certain games and other Bollocks applications.

    He had no idea about MS Office, nor could he use any of the various programs to write a lesson plan.

    When he's asking us for help, I thought he made a joke. His excuse was "that his mom always" did that for him.

    I pretty much doubt that he traveled much before his trip to Thailand, then volunteering in a Baan Nok village when he must have been around 17, or so.

    The same guy's now teaching "computing", health and English to upper primary kids at a government school.

    The Scott was a real good example that European kids don't seem to be very different to kids from Asia and the whole issue seems to be a world wide problem.

    These people don't really know how to master basic living skills, but they can easily get high scores at a game where we might not even understand how to play it.

    Your mentioned "cheap healthcare and education" don't seem to be that efficient, or?

    I hope that all you guys will get a much better treatment than the guy here:

    But a survey conducted this past summer of 300 migrant workers by researchers from four universities found that just a third could tap health-insurance benefits. The government’s own survey from last year said only 18% of migrants had access to the employment-based system. The problem for many is that they work far away from where they are supposed to live under China’s residence, or hukou, registration system.

    Falling Through the Cracks of China’s Health-Care System - WSJ





    祝你今天愉快
    Zhù nǐ jīntiān yúkuài or: Have a nice day.
     
    Last edited: 8 Feb 2017
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  3. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting, isn't it? I grew up surrounded by forests, spent my time hunting and trapping. Now it is idyllic, like a dream.

    People used to form real communities. This happened during the Vietnam War in California. Now everyone is a consumer.

    Overall, Chinese kids are very different from Thai kids. Technology is just a superficial commonality.

    It is going to get much worse. Wait until the robots come. If you thought the smartphone changed your life! Robots will be killing people, and there will be plenty of sex robots too.

    One good thing about China is that porn sites are blocked. (without a VPN)

    Right. This is an important point. I also don't want my kid being raised by Google. In China, the kids are raised by their parents. How my times did I stop kids from playing with their phones in the LOS? Every single day at school. In China? It has not happened yet. That itself was reason enough to move here.
     
  4. sirchai

    sirchai Well-Known Member

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    My wife uses two free VPNs, supplied by Chinese companies, and she plays on Facebook every single day.

    You were obviously too long in Thailand. Lenn Facebook? Since when do people play facebook?

    Wouldn't it be wise to say chatting on farcebook? Peace, maan. No war. :go10
     
  5. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA Well-Known Member

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    South Korea is a nice place to live. I lived there for one year, and I often got to travel there prior to moving for work.

    South Korea is pretty militarized too, especially north of Seoul. In fact, it is surely one of the worst flashpoints in the world.

    I had a positive experience in South Korea. The people were cool, nice food, Western stuff is available, an extremely nice airline (after a certain point Korean Air became an excellent airline instead of being a disaster).

    I miss South Korea.
     
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  6. portnoy58

    portnoy58 Well-Known Member

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    I want to avoid getting into a West is Best or China Rules Supreme sort of debate. For me it is not an either or thing. I find life in China absolutely fascinating.

    I don't mind being surveilled here or anywhere. I like the security at airports and stations - I lived in London for 20 + plus years and thousands of innocent people there and in other cities have paid the ultimate price for terrorist atrocities on public transportation. I am not saying this won't happen here in China because of the security. However when they asked me at Shanghai airport on my last trip back to Thailand to take the battery out of my camera, which was in my checked in baggage, I didn't feel any outrage or intrusion. I thought well done, some one is doing their job properly. This is in contrast to strolling into Siam Paragon with the alarms on the metal detectors bleeping and a smiling uniformed security officer waving me through.

    It is very striking that there isn't a hard drinking culture in China - there are bars and stuff but they are actually thin on the ground. But the Chinese themselves seem pretty indifferent to booze although there seems to be an attempt to market wine drinking as a sophisticated pursuit. But never seen a drunk here. The smoking however is gross and it is sad to see youngsters strutting about with fags dangling from their lips in their macho pose. You'll love China if you are an inveterate smoker and they even have a brand of smokes called, yep, you got it, Double Happiness !!! This absurdity kills me and makes me feel grateful I managed to quit a 3 pack a day habit a few years ago.

    [​IMG]

    I am not trying to make the point that the Chinese public health service is amazing or indeed to make any sort of value judgement about it. But it is accessible and affordable for most people.

    I was very impressed by Xi Jinping's address to the high and mighty at Davos. I would normally ignore this stuff but with Trump frothing at the mouth Xi Jinping performance was just amazing - moderate, balanced, sensitive, thoughtful and compassionate delivered in a gentle tone and with a warm smile. This eminence grise clearly had been well advised. Mind you I don't think many world leaders would struggle to look statesmanlike against Trump and his ranting and raving in the foreground.

    Out here in a small (!) city (population 8.25 million(!) most of which has sprung up in the last 5 - 10 years, the worst thing is life can be a bit bland and it's all a bit same same. But you know I am 2.5 hours away from Shanghai, 1 hour from the coast, 30 minutes from the Yangtze River and there are endless numbers of interesting places nearby.

    I am enjoying the experience. I am happy here. Sure it's different but that's part of the attraction. I doubt I'll ever fathom out this place. However I like my Chinese colleagues. I am not exactly intimate with any of them but they seem to be respectful, welcoming and helpful and most of them appear to be highly competent teachers.

    Yes there's no doubt life without a VPN would be difficult in China but I am untroubled by any of this stuff. In theory every key I strike can be recorded. Everything I do online leaves a track. That's the same everywhere in the world regardless of location. Many countries actively block internet content notably Thailand. But the internet is in fact the antithesis of free speech - it facilitates control and surveillance and makes censorship easier. It's about convenience not freedom and I think the Chinese understand this as life here is much 'smarter'. WeChat is mind boggling - TenCent (sic!), the developer, announced that during the recent New Year festival a total of 14 billion 'red packets' were sent using WeChat. It seems the only requirements are you need a smartphone ( plenty of cheap functional options but they do tend to like top end iPhones), have a bank account and a debit card and of course a WeChat account. And away you go...

    So far so good though it is bloody freezing here right now!
     
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  7. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    ^It is cold here too, and wechat is so great! How long do you foresee staying?
    ---

    You all make some valid points, and I never intended to compare China to other countries, but was responding to what a few said regarding SK. I like my life here too, but I certainly know that it is communist and different in regards to a number of countries. I see the pluses/faults and minuses and intend to stay here for a few more years or perhaps longer. We as foreigners/expats have it well though and some locals not as much when I look at their pay and fees.

    I believe we are about there as a superpower and agree with most of your points in regard to the US. I would not want to be living in the US now. Trump has certainly fucked it up and will make it a closed society just like Brexit has done. However, I really don't believe that western ideals will screw up the education system. I don't think they are talking about cell phones either. I believe they are talking more about the type of teaching (pedagogy), and higher order thinking that allows children to question, think and learn more about the world which is not a bad thing.

    Great article! This is what I was talking about when I said the fees that Chinese people pay to send their kids to public schools. It works the same with healthcare. Many of these migrants have to pay high taxes, healthcare and educational fees. There are many Chinese people that work in Beijing, but have their kids and wife in another province because they just can't afford to send their kids to Beijing schools. Chinese parents may also have their child living in another province with their grandparents and visit on holidays. As well you have children that go to migrant schools that can't go and live outside of Beijing. These schools are grossly underfunded and staffed by a caring Chinese person and a host of foreign volunteers and NGO's that teach them. I've volunteered in these migrant schools just outside of the city.
    --
    I realize that most of you are going on about how great China is, and I certainly see the positives, but I am also talking about what I see as the not so great parts and trying to relate to the article instead of comparing it to places like Thailand and SK.
     
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  8. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    Congrats! That is a hard feat. That is one thing I cannot stand here, is that most people smoke. And they smoke everywhere including public places. I went to a nightclub on vacation and it was so so smoky. I really wish they would change the laws on this somehow.
     
  9. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    Why farcebook? I like it in that I can stay in touch with friends and family around the world. I know some people take it to the extreme though and post their whole life on there including every up to the minute updates. lol.
     
  10. portnoy58

    portnoy58 Well-Known Member

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    Quote of the day!

    I think it is amazing in that it is new and different. i can hack it here and it will be even better when my wife and kids join me .... but my happiness is an inside job, as opposed to out there. I hope!
     
  11. sirchai

    sirchai Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the very nice and informative post.

    Conveniance, not freedom seems to be more common than many might think.


    "Whether it was intended or not, I believe that a form of cultural genocide has taken place in Tibet.… Tibetans have been reduced to an insignificant minority … as a result of the huge transfer of non-Tibetans into Tibet. The distinctive Tibetan cultural heritage … is fading away.

    … In reality, there is no religious freedom in Tibet. Even to call for a little more freedom is to risk being labeled a separatist. Nor is there any real autonomy in Tibet, even though these basic freedoms are guaranteed by the Chinese constitution.

    I believe the demonstrations and protests taking place in Tibet are a spontaneous outburst of public resentment built up by years of repression in defiance of authorities that are oblivious to the sentiments of the local populace. They mistakenly believe that further repressive measures are the way to achieve their declared aim of long-term unity and stability."

    Dalai Lama Press Release March 18, 2008

    Here's an interesting article and I really had no idea that Tibet was invaded by the UK to force the thirteenth Dalai Lama to open relations in 1904.

    For those who'd like to read a few good points regarding Tibet:

    Tibet Through Chinese Eyes - The Atlantic

    Please see 100 TB heat attached. It's at night a sort of cold, at daytime really hot.

    Double Happiness from lower Isaan.

    OP, don't you miss to sit outside? :burp :cold :cold :cold?
     
    Last edited: 8 Feb 2017

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