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VISA extended, but Work Permit denied......

Discussion in 'Work permits' started by FedUp, 31 Mar 2014.

  1. FedUp

    FedUp Thread Starter New Member

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    Visa extended, no worries? Multi re-entry money gladly accepted. Then the Labor Department says you need more information and proof etc. for waiver letters. Does this immediately void the VISA and Re-Entry permit once the existing Work Permit expires? Or, can one assume that the departments aren't on the same "page" computer wise and you have at least some grace period to sort it all out?
     
  2. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    Very tricky and rare situation. A couple of years ago, an extension of the permission of stay based on employment was only granted when you could submit a copy of your work permit or a copy of the receipt that the work permit was in process. That has changed. At many Immigration Offices you'll obtain your extension of stay based on your employment contract. The TCT requirements do apply but they're apparently still not enforced nationwide. As said, it's a tricky situation but I believe your extension of stay will only become void when employment ceases. When you're not intending to cancel your extension of stay before expiration, you don't really have immigration problems other than not having a work permit. If you're going to cancel your extension of stay, you must submit proof of the work permit cancellation and if you don't have one, problems might occur.
     
  3. daiwill

    daiwill Member

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    That's a real Catch 22 then, isn't it Stamp?
     
  4. FedUp

    FedUp Thread Starter New Member

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    So, if the WP isn't renewed, the teacher finds herself working without a WP and the school is of course in violation of Thai law. Since there isn't anything in the employment contract about the WP and/or being legally fit to teach, would said school be required to give the prescribed contractual notice to said teacher, pay her, and not allow her to actually teach?
     
  5. Mr Pete

    Mr Pete Active Member

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    I doubt that very much mate. If you are saying to the employer that work permit aside, you have a contract that states notice needs to be given and you need to be paid, I think they could respond with "ok, work permit aside, you are contracted to work x amount of hours, if you don't work then we will not pay you'..

    They could technically give you a months unpaid notice. You work, they pay you. You cannot work there so they won't pay you... In my opinion it makes the lack of anything about work permit or legally able to work irrelevant.

    BUT, this is just my opinion :thumbsup2:
     
  6. Clown

    Clown Well-Known Member

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    Back in 2011, at a good government high school, they never bothered with a WP in some cases. And overlooked a clear case of a fake degree. Famcare International, South Africa? Pay $ 200 and you can be a minister, not just a Theology graduate... :hilarious:

    I would stick around and take their money as long as this will be going on. Chances are they will fire your ass pdq.
     
  7. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Well-Known Member

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    Need to look at your contract but mine says that the contract is dependent on an ability to work in Thailand according to all laws. If I didn't have a work permit I would be violating the contract. Is it gross misconduct? I don't know Thai Law well enough. I have no idea of your situation, how friendly you are with managers but to manage your expectations, expect to be unpaid and thrown out as soon it is convenient for them to do so.

    I hope this doesn't happen.:thai wai:
     
  8. Corsair

    Corsair Well-Known Member

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    Why can't you produce the contract as proof of employment as well.as a letyer of employment? How much more proof is needed? Can't you get a waiver? What am I missing, you don't have a degree so no waiver?
     
  9. FedUp

    FedUp Thread Starter New Member

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    What you are missing is the fact that the waiver has become the "problem" of the teacher, not the school. To obtain said "waiver" one needs to show progress towards getting an actual TL. No effort or progress has been achieved and therefore, application for the waiver becomes shall we say a waste of time?

    A brief update and solicitation for more opinions:

    1. Left the country in early April, and entered a few days ago. The multi-re-entry and VISA renewal were accepted. A full year's VISA stamp applied. This confirms that at the least, said departments aren't communicating electronically.

    2. Said WP has now expired. However, application for renewal was made before expiration. So the question remains, how long does said application remain pending and qualify the teacher as working legally?

    3. Any good ideas for Indian food? Friend invited me and it's all new to me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The extension of stay was granted because the teacher is going to work.

    If a teacher quits or gets fired or as is the case here, doesn't secure a WP, I sense there must be an automatic void of the extension of stay?

    So that brings us to the real question. Whose responsibility is it to advise immigration that employment has been terminated? How can(and why should you?) provide proof that your WP is also canceled when you don't have it in hand? DOes this rule you post apply outside of Thailand?(for example in Phnom Penh or Laos)
     
  10. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    AFAIK the respective laws state that when work ceases you have to surrender/ cancel your work permit at the Labour Office and cancel your extension of the permission of stay based on employment supported by the TM.10 (Labour) at Immigration.

    The risk factor for not complying with the laws lays by Immigration. When you hold an extension of stay based on employment you must be able to show your work permit if asked for. If you can't show it you are on overstay and when Immigration found you instead you visiting Immigration at an office or at a border crossing you have committed a criminal offence and risk IDC and deportation.
     
  11. FedUp

    FedUp Thread Starter New Member

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    I was told by a Thai "lawyer"(this means someone who deals with said agencies on a regular basis and knows the law) that this would only come up when you went to renew once again, based on employment. They would demand the copy of an up to date Work Permit or charge you with an overstay for the year prior.

    What is not clear is what happens when these items expire. In our working example, the WP is being held by the labor department and is expired. Naturally the individual has no way of proving she canceled it. It simply expired and poof, done deal. Likewise, if she leaves the country during the term of the extension based on employment, her return might be at a date later than that defined by same, and then of course there doesn't seem to be any cause to prove you were working during said period. Repeating myself, these things seem so "easy" but we are not Thais(at least I'm not) and laws are not clearly enforced and understood, especially in English. I wonder if you can cancel your extension abroad and get a tourist VISA for entry back into the Kingdom, therefore avoiding all questions and overstay accusations?
     
  12. Rastus

    Rastus Well-Known Member

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    If I understand the situation correctly, permission to stay was extended for a year but the WP was not renewed because the Labour Office asked for a further TCT waiver but the waiver will not come because no "progress" has been made. The original WP has now expired and a new one will not be given because a further TCT waiver will not be given. Clearly you (or whoever) cannot work legally without a work permit so the permission to stay based on work will be invalid once the old WP expires and it is clear a new one will not be forthcoming.

    If (whoever) doesn't get a re-entry permit on leaving Thailand, the permission to stay will be voided upon leaving the Kingdom. Coming back with a tourist visa will make it clear the person is a tourist. However, I don't recall ever being asked anything by Thai immigration either when leaving Thailand or when entering Thailand. I suspect you are 'thinking too mut' but by doing things legally, you/she should have nothing to worry about.
     
  13. FedUp

    FedUp Thread Starter New Member

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    Thank you for a detailed opinion.

    You state "and it is clear a new one(WP) will not be forthcoming. As mentioned, the WP renewal application is(or may be?) still pending despite being expired and said application was filed prior to expiration. We were and continue to ask what grace period may be given in this circumstance. Previous experience was 90 days but that for the first WP.

    Thinking too much can and does cause more than legal problems. However, we once again remind you that translations do lose some of their meaning and we need to understand in English, not Thai. I don't personally feel that being in the country on a valid VISA ext granted based upon work is at present "illegal" because the WP renewal application has been filed but am here to read other opinions. There have been no "official" denials of said application, only advice that it isn't approved yet. This gray area is time restricted I assume.
     
  14. Clown

    Clown Well-Known Member

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    Throw in the customary "3 months' notice period" for either party to end the employment contract and it gets even trickier.

    OP, what's your status now?
     
  15. Rastus

    Rastus Well-Known Member

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    The grace period question is an interesting one. What was the answer from the Labour Office about it when you/she asked them?
    Have you told them that another waiver will not be forthcoming? What as their reply?
     

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