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using 'g' vs 'k' in transliteration from thai to english

Discussion in 'Thai Language' started by crew, 9 Jun 2014.

  1. crew

    crew Thread Starter Faber College Member

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    when transliterating , some us 'g', while others use 'k'.

    at the beginning of the word, is a /g/ sound, while at the end of the word, it's a /k/ sound.

    so why then would anyone use a 'k' to represent /g/?

    ^ BTW, that's a genuine question. :wai3:

    from the other thread...
    if you transliterate the thai word for 'chicken' in to 'khai' or 'kai', how do you transliterate the thai word for egg? most systems i've seen, and i know they're not uniform, do 'gai' and 'khai', respectively.
     
  2. Mister T

    Mister T Retired, fat and happy

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    The clue was in the tone. :thai wai:
     
  3. chuachinsoon

    chuachinsoon Well-Known Member

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    Re: Kao Man Kai reached 50 Baht?

    chicken - kai
    egg - khai

    nine - kao
    rice - khao
     
    Mati likes this.
  4. ramses

    ramses Well-Known Member

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    Re: Kao Man Kai reached 50 Baht?

    ^ not that I am fan of the IPA, but it seems to me to be a better alternative to these 'transliteration' systems
     
  5. NODIIT

    NODIIT Well-Known Member

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    In march I had the chance to meet a teacher of Thammasat specialized in the romanization of the Thai.
    I asked him to give me the the "correct" thai spelling for my name.
    He didn't gave me one but 3 different spellings.
    If I remembered well, one was the one the King would used, another the one the "official" romanization rule would recognize and the last one represented the "common usage".

    There is certainly no simple answer to these questions, except if you use IPA.
     
  6. chuachinsoon

    chuachinsoon Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear. I feel like a noob. What's IPA stand for?
     
  7. luibkk

    luibkk Well-Known Member

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    International Phonetic Alphabet
     
  8. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    IPA = i Phone Application archive

    or

    IPA = International Phonetic Alphabet
     
  9. luibkk

    luibkk Well-Known Member

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    Stamp, you forgot India Pale Ale and Institut für Produktionstechnik und Automatisierung (Fraunhofer Gesellschaft) as well as International Permafrost Association.:hilarious:
     
  10. crew

    crew Thread Starter Faber College Member

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    Re: Kao Man Kai reached 50 Baht?

    isn't the IPA the IPA of english and not meant to be used for other languages? take the อึ vowel sound for instance. it would be tough assigning an IPA character to that one.

    i dont' think i like your tone, sir. :smile2:
    i'm sure there's a rationale behind this system but it's a bit silly if you ask me.

    ไข่clearly starts with a /k/, while ไก่ clearly starts with a /g/. the same can be said for the second set of examples you listed as well.

    if it's a tone thing, what's the point? a noob to thailand will look at 'kai' for 'chicken' and think it's pronounced with an initial /k/ and that's not how it's articulated.
     
  11. luibkk

    luibkk Well-Known Member

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    Re: Kao Man Kai reached 50 Baht?

    I think it's called IPA because it's international and meant to be used for many languages. There's an IPA chart for Thai and the vowel อึ is actually −ือ if I'm not mistaken and it does have an IPA symbol, [ɯː].
    I'm not so sure about the rationale but I agree it's quite silly. Just look at maps, websites, street signs, adverts, etc. and you'll find many different English spellings for the same word. Exchanging "g" and "k" is just one example. Sometimes it leads me to believe that Thais don't know the spelling of their Thai words, an observation you can make yourself when you watch a Thai person looking up a Thai word in a Thai dictionary. It takes them 10 minutes and then they give up.
     
  12. Rastus

    Rastus Well-Known Member

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    It's the same tone for both words (chicken and egg) - a low tone. The clue is in the spelling (including the tone mark).

    ไก่ ไข่

    I totally agree but I don't believe the Thai system of Romanisation was invented to help foreigners. Don't ask me who it is supposed to help or who it actually helps as I really do not know.
     
  13. NODIIT

    NODIIT Well-Known Member

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    As I stated before:
    there is the Thai system of Romanisation that nobody apply of seems to be aware of
    and
    there is the good-old "common sense" which seems to be not so "common" and widely differ from one people to another

    imo
    :righton:
     

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