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Pisa Test Scores

Discussion in 'Staffroom' started by bahn_farang, 6 Dec 2016.

  1. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Well-Known Member

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    ^There is a lot to be said on this topic and frankly, I don't have the time at the moment. Read up on Education and Globalization. There are pros and cons that's for sure, but we have to be realistic in that we have moved into a more globalized world and education systems are rapidly changing to meet the needs of this system and produce internationally minded, critical thinkers who can cope and thrive in this society.

    I do wish you'd take the time and listen to the video I posted, but again this all seems too elite for you.
     
  2. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    a better woman than I once said..... did you even read what I said?

    on students

    on teachers

     
  3. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    so you return to the old chestnut of did you even......
     
  4. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    I did, I disagree
     
  5. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Well-Known Member

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    ^Okay, whatever.
     
  6. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    International teacher, I respect you views, whether they alter my own is of direct relation to your ability to argue them. You may disagree with my own views but please understand, the debate does not reflect (necessarily) the opinions formed afterwards.

    Globalisation works for the rich, it is a source of employment (cheap) for the poor.

    Come on don't give in now!
     
  7. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Well-Known Member

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    ^Haha, I'm not giving up, but I've been procrastinating most of the day when I have a lot of work to do. I think it is harder for countries who are at the bottom of the PISA scale to move up because, of not just poverty, but due to constraints like a military government who have all the power. I am not arguing that point. I believe that IB is creating caring, global citizens and I can see a big difference from working in a public school in Korea to working at an IB school in China. You are right in that it is richer parents that can afford to send their kids to my school, but it doesn't mean that changes can't be made to Thailand's education system to improve their PISA scores, but it may take time and money.
     
    sirchai likes this.
  8. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Well-Known Member

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    More reading...

    Trust me, I'm not a big fan of testing, but this test is fascinating in some ways. This is a bit older reading..
    OECD: Poverty Explains 46% of PISA Scores - Assessing the Assessments - Education Week

    More....This article goes much more in depth.
    America’s Mediocre Test Scores: Education crisis or poverty crisis? : Education Next

    According to this article..
    America’s mediocre performance is remarkably consistent. Yes, affluent students outperform poor students. But they don’t outperform their peers overseas.

    This doesn’t imply that reform, as currently formulated, is on the right track. Why U.S. student performance is mediocre is a topic worthy of study and debate, as is how to help students at all points on the economic spectrum perform better.

    What it does show is that poverty can’t explain away America’s lackluster academic performance. That excuse, however soothing it may be to educators, politicians, and social critics, turns out to be a crutch that’s unfounded in evidence. We need to stop using it and start getting serious about improving the achievement of all the nation’s students.
     
    Last edited: 15 Jan 2017
  9. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Well-Known Member

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  10. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    my apologies you are right, like you I no longer have the energy to debate, I'm full, I'm done. Respectfully there may be an opposing view from your own.
     
  11. Gor Blimey Guvnur!

    Gor Blimey Guvnur! What the duck ! Staff Member

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    My apologies BF but its going ....:lost it
    Thus the other week ....
    ....and today.
    Chill, be happy ....tomorrow is a holiday.
    :burp
     
  12. sirchai

    sirchai Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your "argument" that doesn't seem to go into the right direction now. You both want the same but you're trying to come with arguments that aren't really needed. Don't we all sit in the same boat?

    Reading between your lines, you both want the same but it seems that a little misunderstanding in one post has happened and there's really no reason to boycott each other.

    IT, just trying to give you an example of my current school. Some Thai teachers have started again to put huge posters at the entrance of their classrooms and they're trying to promote BBL. It's more an advertisement for the parents and sounds good. Too good to be true.

    BBL, an acronym for Brain-Based Learning was something I saw in 2005 at my first school in Isaan. The first thought I had was don't we all use our brains when we learn something? Unfortunately, I could never get a straight answer to my questions what they're doing differently than other teachers.

    But none of these teachers knew anything about the meaning of it and it's basically just an acronym that looks good on a wall of a classroom or on the door, of course, it has to be visible for the parents and any visitors.

    “As Knowles pointed out, our standard educational pedagogy hasn't changed much since the 11th century when it was developed to train monastic scribes. Teachers still lecture and students still memorize.

    Recent discoveries about the brain

    In order to find out about the recent discoveries about the brain, I attended a presentation in Bangkok by Professor Curtis Kelly, a leading proponent of Brain Based Learning. Professor Kelly agrees that educational practices have changed little over the centuries.

    “As Knowles pointed out, our standard educational pedagogy hasn't changed much since the 11th century when it was developed to train monastic scribes. Teachers still lecture and students still memorize. Some educators, however, are working to change our lack of progress. They believe the discoveries of neuroscience should be used to promote "brain-compatible" teaching methods.”

    Professor Curtis Kelly explained to the audience of experienced EFL teachers how an understanding of these advances can make us all better teachers.

    Einstein’s famous remark about learning: “The only thing interfering with my learning is my education.”

    The future of BBL
    BBL will play an increasingly prominent part in Thai education if the recent news in Thailand is anything to go by. The Royal Thai Government (RTG) has set up a new organization called the National Institute forBrain-Based Learning (NIBL) which recently initiated a new pilot program in six upcountry primary schools with plans to extend the trial to secondary schools next year.

    The aim of the trial is to promote the idea that learning methods should begin for children from the time they are in the womb right up to secondary school. Parents are also being encouraged to take a much more proactive role in their children’s development.

    The trial is also an attempt to see how effective BBL can be in raising the standards of education in Thailand. This is only one aspect of the RTG’s efforts in what is their Second Educational Reforms (the original reforms having been started in 1999).

    In fact, the RTG has guaranteed over 18 billion baht (about GBP 330 million) to provide free education for all students until the age of fifteen and to attract new teachers, as there is currently a shortfall of 100,000 teachers in the education sector.

    While nobody can predict what the future holds, we can only hope that BBL is as successful as many people believe it could be.

    This article seems to be quite a few years old and you can name if BBL, IB, or any other acronym of your choice.

    Nothing is going to change when the guys on top don't even have an idea what it's all about and I'm sure that most Thai teachers, especially those who're in for 30 + years are not able to change their teaching style or learn new methods how to teach more efficiently.

    Could you please stop your war with words because you both want the same. And that's how the kids can get a decent education.

    I'm in for 12 years and I feel very sad that the students' level of English hasn't changed in a period of 12 years. Exactly the opposite has happened in the area I call my home. I've just met some students who called my name and it took a while to figure out that they were my students in grade five and six.

    They were good at that time and could answer various questions about themselves, but after six years of high school English they'd lost all their English speaking skills and couldn't even understand the simplest questions anymore.

    We then continued our chat in Thai which made me very sad.

    Kids these days seem to ( In my own humble opinion) have less English skills than they had before all the agencies popped up like mushrooms and before they started to hire other Asian teachers who were seen as NES teachers.

    Not only the quality of many Thai English teachers was/is very questionable, plenty of backpackers who became teachers just because they came from an English speaking country didn't help Thai students to get better in English.

    Nowadays, you can find Asian and Caucasian teachers at small schools in the middle of nowhere, but when you ask some kids a simple question, none can answer you.

    There's a time when foreigners with a crippled command in English grammar were hired and happy that Thai teachers taught grammar and they "only made the conversational part."

    Many Filipinos started teaching English and signed contracts making 9 K/month in 2005. And what goes around comes around.

    The foreigners didn't really like each other and two different worlds came together.Nothing has changed until now. The Filipino teachers are not seeking a chat with a foreigner and vice versa, which is troublesome sad.

    Thai head teachers, who wouldn't know the difference between a German-English speaking teacher and a Scottish NES teacher made decisions that were insane.

    So many people got hired into EP programs to teach science and math, without even having finished high school back home. But on paper, they were all degree holders either in primary, or secondary education.

    I've met a lot of science teachers who had no idea what a herbivore is, what pollution means, etc..but they taught science at a high school? How does that work?

    It wasn't a question if the Americans really made the moon landing, or if it was faked.

    Not long and almost all schools in the cities had foreign English teachers, but a lot of them had something in common. They could speak some broken English but had no idea about teaching the language English to Thai kids.

    Thai kids seem to be very different to Chinese kids. I don't know if it's wise comparing Chinese students with Thai students who might think they must learn English, while the Chinese kids are happy that they may learn English.

    Cheers- :bye
     
  13. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Well-Known Member

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    ^Thanks for your post. I am not comparing, but I think that countries can learn a lot from each other (especially the lower performing countries on the PISA).

    I agree you can't compare, but you can see why based on everything I posted today as to why some of these countries are doing better and you cannot blame it all on poverty (although that has a big part). I just wish the best for Thailand and that's all. I see all sides and I hate when BF says that I do not. I've worked in Thailand briefly, got my CELTA there, and am aware of some of the problems. I commend you that work in the public system.. I do not want to do it based on my philosophy of education and what I've seen in the past three years.
     
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  14. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    my deepest apologies if i came across that way. I am sorry.
     
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