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Pisa Test Scores

Discussion in 'Staffroom' started by bahn_farang, 6 Dec 2016.

  1. sirchai

    sirchai Well-Known Member

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    It would be so easy to fix the language problem and send all those who want to become English teachers to an English speaking country, let them study for a "real BA". not a cheated one and once they come back they do speak English and won't lose their faces everywhere.

    Let the students who don't want to study fail and repeat the grade again. If not send them to special schools with teachers for special needs.

    Allow the students from grade one to 12 to ask their teachers questions and stop the being a god in a white uniform attitude of a Thai teacher.

    Anything regarding tests should be done by NES teachers and would Thais listen to some foreigners there'd be a positive change. That doesn't happen when they call you farang, instead of Khun Kroo Dangchaat.


    A friend who saw some Thai colleagues in their white uniforms was really asking me why we'd have so many soldiers at our school....

    Why do the foreign teachers who have been here longer know where the problems are, while the Thais are acting like all would be fine and continue their English teaching by using 95 % of Thai?
     
  2. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher AKA phuketbound

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    ^I don't see anything wrong with using Thai, because as EAL teachers we realize how important it is to keep your mother tongue, but learning English is also important because it is a global language. The problem is that in today's society people are more and more educated and the world is becoming more connected, so knowing English is important. Now, I realize that many Thai people may not need it or may not ever go abroad, but basically then it becomes a closed society in some ways, no?

    In a few years, there will be another section on the PISA test where it looks at Global Awareness. It will pilot this test with certain countries.. so developing caring, critical thinker's who are aware of world problems both locally and globally.
     
  3. sirchai

    sirchai Well-Known Member

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    Even exchange students who've spent a year in a European country or somewhere in the States, have a totally different view of life.

    I'm afraid that you're right with your "closed society" where Thainess doesn't cover the lack of common knowledge.

    It's time for Thailand to move on, but without an Army government.

    A BA degree from Thailand internationally seen means nothing. A friend of mine tried to find a job in Germany for his Thai wife, a high school teacher, having all her diplomas and certificates.

    The only two jobs he could find were a waitress job at an Autobahn restaurant and a hotel clerk position at a two-star hotel in the middle of nowhere.

    He quit his teaching position back home and is now in Thailand teaching English.

    His starting salary was 26 K with 17 years of English teaching experience and a teacher's license, etc..
     
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  4. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA Well-Known Member

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    OxfordDon used the word doublethink precisely. The more I learn about Orwell, the more I think he was a genius. By the way, if you did not know, he spent a lot of time in Burma, which is interesting, and he was shot in the neck during the Spanish Civil War.

    His analysis of how a totalitarian state manipulates language is profound, and it is all on Wikipedia. Check out newspeak and doublethink. But there is a lot more to it; for example, how comparatives and superlatives are formed, and how a state can co-opt disagreement and dissent. By the way, check out BBC Radio for programs on Orwell. They are amazing.

    As far as free speech goes, I think things are looking pretty good. If you want to push the limits, start your own website. As soon as someone deletes a comment of mine, I just post it on my websites, the Washington Post, WeChat, the Telegraph, a hodge-podge of papers in the USA, sometimes on Wikipedia, Al Jazeera, and TripAdvisor (if it applies), and I hope that 30,000 people see it. Once you write something and you see that 30,000 people read it, or at least clicked on it, you will know that writing on the internet is meaningful.

    The thing about the internet is that people actually read what you post. Someone, somewhere, has found your post and is digging in. So don't worry about free speech. The sky is the limit. If you simply must say something in particular, but you want no attribution, you can do that over the Tor Network using TAILS. Still, I would not do that from home. Load a live system on a USB and that you downloaded from a public computer in a dirty internet cafe in Isaan. Verify the SHA-256 checksum of your TAILS download. If you don't know how to do that, it is easy to figure out. Again, download TAILS using a public computer. Don't use TAILS to get on the internet from your computer at home--unless you feel lonely.

    Once you make a good copy of TAILS you can use it in any public computer without leaving a trace, on that computer. It should guarantee anonymity (not privacy). If you need to start an email account that does not require a telephone number, then use Yandex. Only access that email over TAILS. That should make your free speech a little more zesty.

    Don't think that absolutely no one on the planet is going to know from where you got on the internet. But as long as you are only using it to express your controversial opinions about something mundane--like education in Finland, immigration in America--then go for it. Other topics will draw attention, most likely.

    Higher levels of anonymity and privacy require expertise.

    Have a nice day.
     
    Last edited: 15 Jan 2017
  5. OxfordDon

    OxfordDon Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad there is debate on this, but to really discuss it one needs to look beyond the headline figures (I'm not suggesting you haven't.)

    I haven't got access to the detailed data of course, but it seems like Thailand has more or less the same number of high scorers as Singapore. Does it really need more? Singapore is a post-colonial city where 97% of the people work in services, and international banking is a mainstay of the economy. Thailand is a country where 40%+ work in agriculture. And before we get the usual jibes about farmers, let's all take a deep breath and admit we all need to eat - you can't eat money. You cannot consider academic results without taking into account bigger socio-historico-economic factors.

    Thailand does compete globally, despite the unbelievable drag created by political turbulence in the last few years; a small example - Bkk and London have remained the top 2 tourist city destinations for quite a while now. I can't remember offhand (but you can google it if you wish), but I think T-L was ranked 30 something for ease of doing business/competitive business environment.

    By the way, Singapore teaches very much to the tests; I'm not saying this is bad, but it does explain a lot.

    What surprises me more than T-L's figures are those for the UK and the US, but I've never seen a foreigner in T-L refer to this.

    Or let's take a different set of criteria: gun-crime at school, bullying at school, murder at school.
     
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  6. OxfordDon

    OxfordDon Well-Known Member

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    :-) yes he did David, and his "Burmese Days" sums up my view of 90% of expats in Thailand. I'm glad to know that this forum is comprised of the members of the other 10% :-)
     
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  7. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA Well-Known Member

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    In the Washington Post, George Will just said that liberal educators in America are not educable. No shi^.

    As soon as morality is spoken of as a goal of education, a bright red light should go off inside your brain, and you should hear a robotic voice over your shoulder, insisting this: your job, TEFLer, is to make sure these kids never have a thought of their own. If you can, get them to cheat on the tests. They are equal and caring. Tell them the goal is innovation and moving forward into the next century with critical thought and world-class entrepreneurship, etc. Facebook is your friend TEFLer. Make them less competitive at school, but more competitive materialistically and about their appearance. Whatever you do, make sure they never read a book on their own.
     
  8. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher AKA phuketbound

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    ^I'm not quite sure I follow, but being I'm a teacher with actual teaching qualifications working in an IB PYP school, my point of view is that the IB program teaches our students to be caring, principled, open-minded, critical thinkers, who are globally minded.

    Also, many bilingual schools in China are also teaching critical thinking, project based, student centered learning. It is the way forward I believe. I am big believer in the IB program now being part of it for three years.
     
  9. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    Ah Global awareness.

    I am aware that globalisation has not worked. I am aware that inequality still plagues the planet we live on. Divisions both with countries and between them. Let's look at Thailand, globalisation has provided the vehicle for the status quo to achieve a perversely high percentage of the total wealth of the nation. Companies which we all know about get richer while the majority sinks deeper into ignorance, accepting and debt.

    The selective education system seeks to create more caring world aware citizens. This I truly admire and for sure there are many good teachers working they butt off to promote the values needed if the world is to be come a more caring place. But the all caring globally minded and lest we forget selective (usually not on an intelligence basis but rather on the ability to pay) schools have not delivered the goods. The inequality of the word continues, maintained by the wealthy as some sort of natural inheritance. The Pisa tests are just another 'first world' attempt to create a neoliberal utopia.

    There are of course exceptions, some will finish from the selective school and try to change the world and more importantly just because the majority will seek to maintain the perverse inequality does under no circumstances mean we must stop trying.

    So sorry Internationalteacher , whilst I 100% agree with the principle of the IB system, it has yet to deliver on its promise of a more caring alumni as it can never do so. This is no reflection of the program itself but more a realisation of human greed and the overwhelming challenge that the privileged elite put against any attempts to make the world a nicer place for all.
     
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  10. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    their ... they teacher!
     
  11. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher AKA phuketbound

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    ^^We can agree to disagree then. ;)
    I totally disagree from what I've seen in my time at my school and talking to other educators who work in IB International schools. There is some great learning going on out there that perhaps you can't see in your position. Have you watched the video or is that to elite? Interesting debate and information imo.
     
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  12. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    so we agree
    look at the results though look at world debt
     
  13. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the IB program tries but the results are disappointing in terms of a fairer world
     
  14. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher AKA phuketbound

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    ^How do you know that? Is this based on something you've made up in your head since you have no experience in IB whatsoever? You really may want to get your head of of the sand and look into IB and learn more about it before throwing out some generalization that it is too elite for you. Bangkok has many international schools that teach some amazing students'.
     
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  15. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Thread Starter Well-Known Member

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    Ok let's put this little puppy to rest.

    International school teachers try to make their students more globally minded.

    Globalisation has resulted in a world of inequality

    I have experience of IB

    This is not an attack on the great work which is done by the hard working teachers of International/government schools.

    It is a reflection on the elite has failed in its duty to make the world a fairer place
     

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