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Help Pay rate for teaching English as part time for big groups in Bangkok?

Discussion in 'Staffroom' started by Ajarn Jonathan, 24 Dec 2016.

  1. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    I would like to remind our (senior) members that this forum is absolutely not going the same way ajarnforum went in regards to participating in discussions with teachers new to the profession, i.e. newbies. Please, play it nicely. If you're annoyed by 'naive' behavior or replies of newbies, please don't participate. There was a time that you were new to the profession too.
     
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  2. marcusb

    marcusb Active Member

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    The work permit displays your place of work. It is the only place you can work unless you get them to add another address. Which would mean another contract or something.
    I have taught very few students on the side. When I have I taught them I held classes at my university, in my office. Everything is legal, bottle of Johnny Walker for the director. Everyone happy. I may add that I have never tutored a student (for money) from the uni I work at. If they are a student or staff member thats part of the job, free classes.
     
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  3. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    That's a good one, marcusb. Several primary schools in our town let out their classrooms to foreign teachers for after-school-classes. Obviously, they want a piece of the cake but it's a safe way in regards to legalities.
     
  4. SageAdvice

    SageAdvice Well-Known Member

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    ...hmmm: this message might be improved by removing the condescension (see revised quote above)...just sayin'...
     
  5. stfranalum

    stfranalum Well-Known Member

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    aka- learn to appreciate the little things.

    making money in thailand as a teacher is difficult.

    why, you ask?

    great question jon.

    because life is, anywhere, an investor's economy. you get a greater benefit (non-linear curve) from having capital and investing said capital. if you invest, you will earn.

    if however you want to earn from hours spent working, then buddy ol' boy, you came to the wrong place. it is very difficult to get ahead when you work 1 hour and get Y rate. you work 2x and then get 2y.

    as an investor, you work x and then get 2y. so in that way, 4x = 8y.

    given that you're a teacher, the best bet for you is to get situated in a place that gives you the highest rate of X=Y where Y is better than 4 dollars an hour.

    if your value is on your experience, and it seems that you just want to be in thailand, then what you need to do is just appreciate whats around you. this was what my last post was about. go to work. try your best. experience life and try not to think too much about it. because jon, you will have to work like a dog to get enough $4 an hour gigs to pay for lunch and dinner in any other place in the world.

    but thats just me. maybe as a noob, you consider yourself staying in thailand forever. this is what many noobs feel. most teachers however dont stay too long because they realize that it's difficult to earn money there. thats not a judgment on thailand itself but a cold shower-wake up call to the fact that they arent allowed to stay in thailand. aka- there is no citizenship to speak of. i think they grant that to like 10 people per year or something. at any rate, if you arent just taking it easy, you are on the hamster wheel.

    what you need to do is get some street sense, or common sense and learn from what around you. there are parents willing to pay. but you need to meet them. where might you ask? (you have asked)...anywhere! but you need to get off thine arse and get out there and look at the world as it is. what you need to do johnny, if you want to make money private teaching, is not just be a good teacher, but be known as a good teacher.

    and NEWSFLASH! thais dont necessarily care nor know what good teaching is. but they know a good looking western guy when they see one. they know a clean cut person they want their kid learning from. if you try to make them learn and smile and such, then you are on the right track.

    if however, you dont know where to meet people, then im afraid that coming to this o any other forum is the sad attempt at trying to figure out a world that you are failing to engage in. what you need to do is get out there young man! meet people. hobnob. look good. dress well. invest in yourself. dont be a drunken louse. go to coffee shops and just BE OUTSIDE. involve yourself in things. get married. have a baby. go for broke! :-) (just kidding you WILL go broke)

    as a parent myself, i cant tell you the number of times people have asked me to tutor their kids and such. i always turn it down, because those lessons are a fucking headache. they come for 2 lessons an then take a break. they want you at the time of their choosing and if i were to make it worth my time, i would set a standard they dont want to pay for. if i wanted to set up group lessons and really go for it, i could have done that quite easily. bu truth be told, its not easy. teaching is work and after work, im not keen on putting in the OT for a group of 3-4 kids who are being pressured by their folks to learn english. for me, it feels cheap.

    i have done editing for teachers and uni students and thats been better. but not much better. getting 6k baht is nice....but not when you realize that you're the one who is basically writing their paper for them...on a topic you know little about. that 200 bucks sure sounds good, but when that turns into 2 weeks of agonizing work, you realize that that also, isnt worth the time staying up late and pulling out hairs doing research on someone else's work that they should have done themselves. they're basically paying you because they dont want to do it themselves.

    that's when, johnny, i decided that none of it was worth my time. i decided to enjoy my time in thailand. eat somtam. live cheaply. take motorbike rides. surf the net. avoid problem girls, hoping that you save them from their own economic distress. at that point, i did volunteer teaching. i helped office staff and made connections at the uni i was in. that in turn led to knowing about teacher training and mini-provincial conferences. i made money doing that. now THAT was fun. 8k for a day of talks and workshops. i had to deliver though and use my "expertise" <--see the quotes there. im trying to be humble, because let's face it, im not much better than any others and my ideas about teaching are often evolving.

    so in sum, and i know you were eagerly awaiting the end of this message, is that kicking and clawing away for such trivial gains, the kind you could make in 20 minutes as a server at a local restaurant back home, seems unnecessary, given how far you have come to experience thailand. so sit back and enjoy the place. dont fret. if you cant suss out that teaching privately isnt legal (you didnt ask anyone?) and if you didnt suss out where to do it (you didnt talk to any teachers and get the low down?) then you should just look around...spend time taking it all in...and just learn about the land...the lay of the land....the situation...and of course, yourself. maybe you'll realize that learning to save and live frugally is the best investment you can make while you're there. maybe you'll be thankful for the job you have and learn to cultivate yourself and your practice as a teacher.

    maybe with that growth you will open your eyes to whats around you. and please, no patronizing, "i am open!" kina gibberish. you don't seem keen on the uptake. but thats my advice. be still. be aware. and be open to the opportunities that are most likely right under your well-bridged western nose, of which, the locals would love to come in and see. (your apartment, of course. for 500 an hour. 2-3 students max. bought at 4 week blocks. after school. from 4-6pm and not a minute later.)
     
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  6. SageAdvice

    SageAdvice Well-Known Member

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    ...perceptive: I like that in a poster :smiling.
     
  7. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Well-Known Member

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    Agreed Stamp and thank you for the reminder. This is specifically the reason I offered serious suggestions in the second of, what will be known as 'the initiative posts':smiling. There is flexible space which is professional and yet not terribly expensive. Take a look at the links, the places look just what jonathan is looking for.

    The OP would be wise to proceed with caution as some of the above posts have said. If he doesn't have a work permit, then what he is doing/looking to do is illegal. end of conversation and I would recommend quite strongly that he doesn't commit a crime in his endeavour to make additional resources

    As aside if he does become successful and starts to attract large numbers of students, the knock on the door or shuffled feet at the restaurant table will come. The authorities are welcoming of tip offs from concerned individuals/groups about illegal behaviour.

    If he does have a work permit then he has the option of working for a tuition school where they will add the name of said school to said work permit.

    Option 1: To remain legal in Thailand, do not teach private classes.
    Option 2: Work legitimately for a tuition school.
    Option 3: Work for a school which offers fair compensation for additional hours

    If you are serious about making a go of it then it may, and this is only my personal opinion, prove more productive to post some solutions with the questions you raise. This is applicable not just to this site but life in general. It shows you have thought about it first before floating the question out there. My apologies for the initiative posts but if no one gives you critical feedback then you will not develop. If I am disliked for doing so, then so be it.
     
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  8. Ajarn Jonathan

    Ajarn Jonathan Thread Starter New Member

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    I appreciate all the comments even if they are critical. I am getting good information and ideas from this thread. There were some offtopics I didn't like that's all.

    I was totally anware of needing a work permit for a part time job, I thought it was only applicable to full time jobs. I have foreing friends who have done some tutoring but they never mentioned about the work permit and I didn't ask about it since I didn't know it was needed.

    Meeting people, meeting parents, networking with the students all seems doable but the work permit is a problem. This is a bit discouraging.

    Those rooms that Bahn_farang posted look good I guess the staff will know I am giving a class and then problems will come. Therefore, working for myself looks complicated.

    Also when I went to this job interview for the 500 baht an hour they didn't mention about the work permit.

    The most reliable idea seems to be teaching in an empty class in my university if my boss allows me to do so.
     
  9. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Well-Known Member

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    Just check the law, it's there for a reason.
     
  10. stfranalum

    stfranalum Well-Known Member

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    Some things operate in thailand (and elsewhere) on the down low. make sure you have a decent relationship with anyone you talk to about this kinda stuff. that matters.

    if you and your boss arent close (yet) dont just asume he or she will be (in the mood) able to give you a good answer. you can always do the teaching in the home of one of those parents. again, just be sure that everyone knows that this is to be kept hush hush.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Hey_ewe

    Hey_ewe Well-Known Member

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    If you don’t ask questions, you don’t get answers. It’s easy to forget how daunting and unassailable starting off here in Thailand can seem. Even the most simple things, such as topping up my phone had me perplexed for a while, so don’t hesitate to ask questions.

    I wouldn’t use a classroom at your uni, its better to keep the two separate. There are plenty of tutoring schools that will be willing to rent you a classroom, not ECC but the smaller independent schools, often owned and run by Thai teachers. In any case, just ask the students where they normally study, most of the time they will arrange it themselves. If you are under the banner of a tutorial school, you will have more ‘protection', although you probably won't have a work permit. In 10 years, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for working without a work permit, whilst doing private work. I have never heard of anyone getting a work permit for private work, except those who only work through companies full time like ECC, part time staff don’t have work permits. I could take you to a well known school, where you would find at least a dozen undocumented full time teachers at any given time, no work permit and the incorrect visa, the school simply pays a bribe.

    Private work can be a good source of extra pocket money or it can make up a significant part of your income. Yes, you require a work permit for any work paid or unpaid. You technically shouldn’t go on any school trips, as your work permit usually only specifies one location. The reality is, that many teachers do private work and the authorities know it happens but they aren’t really too concerned about it. You would have to really piss off someone influential or set up your own unregistered tutorial school to find yourself in the crosshairs.

    If you really find that you love teaching, then do yourself a favour and become a qualified teacher in your home country. You look fairly young in your profile picture so there's plenty of time. That might mean a one year PGCE and a few years post qualification experience, which is needed for the better schools and quite painful if you’re from the UK. Once you’ve finished that puts you in a position to teach in international schools, anywhere in the world. You will earn enough money to not be concerned about private work and besides you’ll be kept busy enough with your day job.

    By the way there was a private teaching job I posted on here last week. Teaching English at Harrow International near Don Muang airport. 4750 THB a week for 3 hours on a Saturday morning.

    Saturday School Teacher at Harrow International School Bangkok | Teaching English in Thailand
     
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  12. stfranalum

    stfranalum Well-Known Member

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    seems odd to rent out a room.

    what you dont want are people coming and going from your place. a busybody neighbor could do you in.

    if you go to the student's place...who's to say? they're having a farang over for snacks and...conversation ;-)

    the problem with someone's house arises in terms of wanting a whiteboard. so, if that's worth paying what would be a LARGE % of your takehome from that lesson, then so be it. to counter that, just make photocopies which are dirt cheap, or use a laptop or ipad to get any powerpoint or technology present in the lesson. remember that many of these kids (over 10 or so) might have a smartphone. if you're hip to it, you can get any digital stuff delivered to their phone. wa-la.

    f* paying for a room. get your students to provide that. there's transportation to worry about, but thats not a biggie. you'd be traveling to a school or whatever.

    the bottom line is that less people who know, the better. why ask a language school manager for room and what ends up being space to compete with them? crikey thats weird. ive never heard of privates being done in someone else's language center. most teachers just teach there in said school and get their hours there. ...so pass on that and figure out the logistics yourself, which isnt the hard part. the hard part is getting your students to agree to buying blocks of time AND keeping to that time frame, which mean charging them for lessons they skip out on. if you're really worth your salt you can pull that off. if its somewhat tenuous, you may find it difficult to keep them around. its a business after all, on both ends....your time and theirs. students and especially parents are more than happy to be able to cancel on a whim and think that they can just get that same hour next week. that really blows. so, keep a high standard and stick to it. if you teach at their place, they are less likely to cancel, because its just easier for them to be at home.
     
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  13. Hey_ewe

    Hey_ewe Well-Known Member

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    If you have parents with a suitable place to teach then thats ideal. I have taught groups of up to 10 in parent’s business premises where they have a conference room with a white board, projector, PC and video OHP. I’m not so keen on teaching at the homes of students, the kids seem to act up more as there are far more distractions.

    If you work in a school, you’ll find that several teachers will have their own tutorial school set up. You can usually hire classrooms from them at minimal cost. You have some degree of protection because labour dept aren’t going to go storming into a Thai teachers business without a very good reason. Thai teachers are held in very high esteem by the overwhelming majority of Thai people. You then have a room big enough for a larger group, with a whiteboard and there's often a waiting area for parents. Rent is a small fraction of what can be made, so it’s worth paying to have suitable facilities. Creating an appropriate learning environment is an important factor to consider for all age groups.

    Everyone will have different ways of going about it but I believe students should pay in advance, so they are expected to turn up each week and should pay even if they don’t turn up for a week. It's important to keep an accurate record of who has and has not paid.
     
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  14. SundayJam

    SundayJam Well-Known Member

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    I've taught at a student's house before for roughly a year. I've also taught at a food court in a mall for a few months. I know of many teacher's that do the same with out a work permit. Ultimately, it was easier for me to have someone else manage the payments and time. Employers also have resources that you don't have to buy.

    If you have no experience teaching, 500 baht an hour to teach professionals is fine. In a sense, they're paying you to learn. If you know what you're doing, you would ask for 1,000 baht and settle for 800. The minimum for 'business/corporate English" is 600 baht.
     

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