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No Degree Thailand teaching. What options for a WP?

Discussion in 'Work permits' started by Gor Blimey Guvnur!, 16 Sep 2014.

  1. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Well-Known Member

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    I see we now find humor in child abduction on a teachers site. Just saying.
     
  2. Callisto

    Callisto New Member

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    I have long felt that the fake degree phenomenon destroys the value of my real degree. Gresham's Law applied to degrees: "bad money drives out good."
     
  3. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Well-Known Member

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    ^ cut and paste is a wonderful tool but the above looks like I have a fake degree. I do NOT. I DID manage a program in a non-government school. I agree fake degrees are vile.
     
  4. Gor Blimey Guvnur!

    Gor Blimey Guvnur! Thread Starter What the duck ! Staff Member

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    Gone a tad 'off topic' as to above few posts .. nope it's not about child abduction nor fake degrees ...it's about options for obtaining a WP by working legally without a degree ...oh well.

    A 'tefl provider' in Thailand has stated on their website that since Aug 26th and the backpeddle on 'toursit visas' and 'lack of teachers and tour guides' thing (our beloved PM in a statement) that people without a degree but have have a tefl course under their belt 'may' be considered for a postion to teach legally. Thus. my own words, a WP would follow if one was 'legally engaged'.

    Pinch of salt, but maybe it is worth looking into ...just saying.

    This is also an informative thread about a person with no degree but other qualifications including a Tefl ... right here on TT. Have a good read through it to see the progress, very well detailed by the OP ...more food for thought. (28 posts and recent + particular attention to post#24)


    LEGAL REQUIREMENTS: Working as a Teacher/Trainer/Consultant in NON FORMAL EDUCATION.
     
  5. ttompatz

    ttompatz Just another teacher

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    It might be interesting to note that formal education, non-formal education and informal education are in fact defined in law.

    Informal and non-formal schools are covered under the private school act BE2550.

    TEACHER being defined in law as a regulated and licensed profession.
    (national education act BE2442 as amended by the 2nd national education act 2545).

    Definitions:
    "Teachers" mean professional personnel with major responsibilities for learning and teaching and encouragement of learning among learners through various methods in both state and private educational institutions.

    Section 53 (national education act)
    Teachers, administrators of educational institutions, educational administrators and other educational personnel of both the state and private sectors shall have professional licenses as provided by the law.

    Private School Act, B.E. 2550 as amended by No. 2 B.E. 2554 puts informal education under the auspices of the MOE and various education acts as well as requires "teachers or instructors" who are "suitably qualified". Sections 4 & 5 apply and there is no ministerial exception for "language schools" or "language teaching".

    section 123.
    The Non-formal School shall provide Teachers or Instructors who have qualifications suitable for the curriculum with number appropriate to students according to the rules prescribed by the Commission.

    Professional Standards and Ethics B.E. 2548 effective from 5 September B.E. 2548 relates to the practice of "teaching" and mandates an education to a first degree.

    The profession in education which the Teachers and Educational Personnel Council Act B.E. 2546 also prescribes it to be a practice of licensed profession and requires a degree.

    LEGAL options are dodgy work-around solutions as outlined earlier in this thread for the acquisition of a work permit by people without a degree who are "teaching".

    There IS however a motion by the MOE to allow certified trades people to "teach" in their field in vocational schools (mechanics, western cooks, plumbers, etc). There is nothing yet in policy or law to allow it however so they are "consultants" and can obtain a work permit that way (but they can't legally "teach" and cannot be hired as "English teachers".

    .
     
  6. Gor Blimey Guvnur!

    Gor Blimey Guvnur! Thread Starter What the duck ! Staff Member

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    ^ Ty for the above post ..yes I have a copy of all this and have read through all of this 'trying' to pass the TCT tests (now defunct).

    So .... there is a legal option to obtain a WP in bold:cool:
     
  7. gungchang

    gungchang Well-Known Member

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    Maybe there's a teacher discount available for the Thailand Elite card. :teacher:
     
  8. ttompatz

    ttompatz Just another teacher

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    There are lots of ways to get a work permit.
    We even hired a "foreign cook" to work in the kitchen at school preparing food for the foreign staff.

    NONE of the options (not even consultants) allow you to "teach" without first having a degree.

    .
     
  9. Fatty

    Fatty Member

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    Once worked as an English teacher myself in LOS without a degree. I never felt comfortable about it. My school found that well known loophole (not the fake degree or teaching assistant loophole). Had a WP and was 'legal' for a few years. I was planning on starting a degree in about a year from now, but my hand was forced when this loophole was slammed shut. My school offered me a decent payrise to stay but I didn't feel comfortable. I wanted to get legal and didn't want the hassle. So, I went back to the UK and started a degree in Education. It ends next year.

    Anyone not doing or at least planning the same (or similar) now is asking for trouble. To work in LOS as a teacher with no degree is almost suicidal at the moment. Thing is, there are still loads of people doing it. My previous two schools? Well known and popular private schools. At one of them ,about 15 out of 20 had no degree. Now it's about a 50/50 split (degree/non degree). The other school? Another teacher has just left for the same reasons as myself and starts uni in September this year (I talked him into it...he wants to stay in Thailand without visa hassles and he has no other realistic option). The other 4 teachers? No degrees. Two retirees (one with WP but his 'degree' (not fake) will be checked again soon). The other has no visa and is on a massive overstay (!) One other is leaving next year and the other is working on an Ed visa (and having issues with it atm).

    The upshot is that both of the schools are now advertising that any potential applicants for a job with them MUST have a degree. That is new. They both never specified this before and one of the schools used an agency that got them non degreed teachers after a TESOL course...including myself. Now, it's a real degree or no interview. And that degree be checked etc. And they mean it. One of the schools has already recruited a few new teachers (the first one I mentioned) and all have degrees. Problem?

    The salaries are still the same. And I blame the non degreed teachers working for peanuts. Those schools still have them on their books (although the non degreed teachers are being phased out by these two schools). I'm guilty too (I did it!) However, I will soon have a degree in Education (possibly a first class one too) from the UK. I've learned so much on my Ed degree. SEN kids and how to teach them. Cognitive learning. Inclusive education. Frank Coffield's study on learning styles (Learning styles and individualised learning are championed all over the world...problem is that the learning styles theory (VARK and similar) is total BS). Other stuff I had already worked out for myself in Thailand (engagement. games, songs, teamwork, productive exercises, classroom management, lesson plans etc).

    Thing is, there was so much I didn't know. I thought I knew it all. And I wasn't bad for a blagger, erm I mean 'teacher'.

    So, do yourself, any dependants and other teachers with a degree a favour. Stop 'playing' at being a teacher and get qualified. You'll be able to relax about WPs and visas (well, as much as you ever could in Thailand). No more looking out of the window at school worrying about the Immigration Police turning up. Any dependants you have will stop stressing. Imagine your Thai wife and kid suddenly having to see daddy return home to his home country? Daddy goes back to his own country with no job, no degree course set up and no money. Sure wifey and the kids will love you for that one. Also, if these chancers go (yes, I was one, but saw the light) home, it will mean that salaries 'should' go up. It's the non degreed ones accepting crappy salaries that are keeping salaries low. Supply and demand.

    Oh, and not to forget...the kids/students. Isn't that what teaching is about? The kids/students? Not ''How can I blag another visa or work permit without so much as a GCSE in woodwork?''

    Will Thailand ever pay the going rate for qualified teachers (not necessarily QTS but degreed in English or BA Education with Trinity etc)? We'll never know until the chancers do one (or wake up and get qualified). When I return (possibly with a first degree in Education plus a Trinity TESOL) I will be expecting 60k pcm minimum. If Thailand hasn't moved on, I may stay and work for less while I do a Masters in Ed (Part time or perhaps distance with a UK uni). Kind of my treat (I love studying and I love Thailand, so two birds with one stone). Then, if Thailand is still full of blaggers driving down salaries I'll be off to S.Korea, or perhaps the Middle East. I'm sure many others will be following.

    I get it. I really do. I was a crappy office worker from the UK. I was a nobody if I'm being fair. I had pals in the UK and the odd lady in my life. Had a boring job and rented a two up two down. Suddenly, I had students grovelling on the ground..and it was for me (teachers day). People in my Thai neighbourhood would 'wai' me. Call me 'Teacher'. And were generally full of respect. Everyone wanted to be my friend as I was 'somebody'. It felt great. Add the female attention, the sunshine and cheap booze and...well...I get it.

    Thing is, education is about the student. Not you. If you want to be 'somebody' it needs to be earned. The dude with no visa (on overstay) is a pretty dumb guy. He can't spell for sh++. After 15 years 'teaching' Matteom he asked me what an adjective was. If you ever teach one of his classes the kids will be asking for 'freetime' as what he does is just that. He does nothing and gives them freetime to play on their mobiles if they keep the noise down. Every day. Every lesson (although he does the odd exercise in the books...answers just written on the board and no teaching). Yet, he calls in students to the teachers' room with ''You, come here'' and makes them carry his stuff or clean the room/his desk. He barked orders at the kids and talked/shouted at them like they were dirt and it made me sick. I thought..''I'm also blagging''. He demands respect but deserves none. Again, it should be earned. Not given on the basis of having a white face.

    The choice is yours. Blag and stress. Or do the right thing, relax, increase that self esteem and reap the rewards.
     
  10. Rastus

    Rastus Well-Known Member

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    Yes, an education degree is the way forward. How much will it have cost you to do it in the UK, Fatty?
     
  11. Fatty

    Fatty Member

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    9k per year course fees. I work part time (20-25 hrs per week) too. I can't afford to go out etc. My life is work and study. A sacrifice, but one worth making (I hope) in the end.
     
  12. tiredtony

    tiredtony Well-Known Member

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    Full time study I take it? Did you get help with fees or income support? How old are you now?
    If you had a couple of kids in tow you would've got heaps of ££££££
     

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