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No Degree Thailand teaching. What options for a WP?

Discussion in 'Work permits' started by Gor Blimey Guvnur!, 16 Sep 2014.

  1. Gor Blimey Guvnur!

    Gor Blimey Guvnur! Thread Starter What the duck ! Staff Member

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    Posting a new thread here in the Work permit section as many 'No degree' teachers lack this vital book to stay on a smooth track in Thailand.

    Now, as the title suggests: 'What are the options for foreigners in Thailand without a degree to be able to stay and work here legally as a teacher?'

    Yes, there are some (and would be great to hear from those with this experience) who are here legally without a bonified degree. Thanks in advance to anyone willing to share with a personal pseudonym story as to gaining a work permit without a degree.

    From what I know: It is possible to obtain a WP as a 'Teacher Assistant' (but I'm not sure what that actually entails and if you have knowledge on this matter please enlighten us in this thread) and that some of the poorer schools (especially in the North-East) can argue a case to Khuruspaha that an individual is worthy of at least a teacher license waiver based on a school's need for a said individual combined with the lack of being able to pay a wage to attract a teacher with at least the required minimim of 'a degree'. Furthermore, there are many jobs outside the scope of Khurusapha too and what options, if any, do you know of? (e.g. Corporate work, Language schools?)

    I am posting this on behalf of a few teachers that I know of in this predicament (not me I have a degree) and would really appreciate some constructive comments that are within the realm of the law. Yes, this may have been discussed on 'other forums' but I don't think this has been discussed specifically to this matter here on Thailand Teaching. Please don't suggest Khao San road degrees or likewise nor get on an elitist high-horse about this subject ... if you know something and can share it then please do.

    Thanks in advance and Thailand Teaching in my opinion is about 'all teachers in Thailand' regardless of their qualifications, background, and experience.

    Many thanks to all those that can contribute addressing this issue and in a positive manner to this thread. GBG.
     
  2. ttompatz

    ttompatz Just another teacher

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    To the best of my knowledge there is NO LEGAL way for a person without a degree to work as a "teacher".
    Schools (public, private or informal) under the direction of the MOE (OBEC or OPEC) require teachers to have a minimum of a degree.
    Schools above that level usually require even higher qualifications.

    There are various work-arounds that employ different methods to skirt the laws:
    • work as non-academic staff.
    • work as "experts" or assistants in a non-teaching capacity.


    1. If they have the necessary paperwork & prior experience (ie: cook/chef) then they can be hired as a "culinary expert" to cook "foreign food" then work illegally as a "teacher" (the work permit defines them as a cook).
    2. NGOs get around it by using "volunteer" labor to "assist" the "English teachers" in the schools (yes, volunteers still need a visa and work permit). Some agencies used to employ this tactic as well. I am not sure how long this option will remain viable.

    .
     
  3. steveolevi

    steveolevi Well-Known Member

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    Is this website going "underground"? As the rules become more clearly defined for teaching here legally we should focus on following the proper procedures.

    I for one, busted my ass to get my degree, and to pass the PKT's. I take umbrage when I see these skyvers trying to get in under the radar. They lower standards and they lower pay scales.

    This thread is about NOT complying with qualifications and it does us no good collectively. Those without degrees need to get a degree - like we have done.

    Sorry GBG.
     
    Fatty likes this.
  4. gungchang

    gungchang Well-Known Member

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    As do I. One even thought he was entitled to a copy of my diploma.

    I've had trouble with these frauds. It seems that those who have been the most critical and spouted the most shit are fakes.

    By all means, bring on the loopholes. Awareness of them might lead to them being closed.
     
  5. Gor Blimey Guvnur!

    Gor Blimey Guvnur! Thread Starter What the duck ! Staff Member

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    ^ I can feel your sentiments Steve O and Gung and I myself busted my ass to get a 1st class degree too.
    And ..not to sound off, many many teachers in Thailand do not have a degree and work here illegally and that could be in excess of a speculative 30%. Unfortunately I think the real world dictates that those postions are not going to be filled overnight by qualified and degreed teachers ...for one, many of these non-degree illegals are on lousy pay and in lousy conditions workwise and you and me would snub our noses at many of the poor 9/10 month contract jobs offered lacking any security whatsoever (Hire and fire at will contracts). I'm sorry too but having taught here for some 11 years I can't see the pay going up any more ...it certainly hasn't collectively over this period, one just has to take a look at the pay offered on 'that job website' currently.

    However, I am trying to ask what is legal ... tompatz came up with some suggestions concerning NGO's ...One of my friends up on the Mae Sot border was doing exactly that and he recieved a small stipend too ... this was above board and legal. His other comment about 'skills' is also an option and I cannot see a problem in that ... e.g if you are employed as an Engineering trainer and you train others how to use CNC machinery and progam too then that's fine. Also yes you could obtain a WP based on being an 'Engineer' and teach too ... it would be legal and above board as the person is engaged for their skills as an Engineer and not as an English teacher ...don't you think?

    I sort of agree with what you say SteveO about procedures etc., but in this thread I am not trying to support working illegally, I am trying to see ways that people can work here legally within the current given framework of the law. Yes, there are teachers out there (or their WP may say some other title) who are working legally and without a degree ...just fishing for the legal options.

    Sorry too if I have misconstrued what Thailand teaching respresents.
     
  6. mike123_ca

    mike123_ca Active Member

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    I think its the Filipino's accepting to work for 18,000 baht a month which is keeping the wages low.
    I suspect those with fake degrees are demanding at least 30,000 a month.
     
  7. Jilrob

    Jilrob Member

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    Interesting that someone on another site insisted that a degree is not necessary in a non-govt school. Bahn-Farang you managed one what do you say?
     
  8. Gor Blimey Guvnur!

    Gor Blimey Guvnur! Thread Starter What the duck ! Staff Member

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  9. gungchang

    gungchang Well-Known Member

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    Gee, that's never happened before!

    ForumRomanum+copy.jpg

    How was it?

    240px-A-Funny-Thing-Happened-on-the-Way-to-the-Forum.jpg

    ForumRomanum+copy.jpg

    240px-A-Funny-Thing-Happened-on-the-Way-to-the-Forum.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Apr 2015
  10. Clown

    Clown Well-Known Member

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    Well, a former school fired the NES who made 30 k when I came along accepting 25 k. Then someone told them of a 20 years old dude who would accept 20 k. You can figure out the rest.

    Somehow, they managed to get him past an inquisitive Immigration officer. It took 2 hours and his earrings were objected to. The TCT was involved - not sure in which way. OTOH, they took great pains to make him sing a special book as he was no teacher. He taught the American's classes and did everything like a teacher. and this school year, he's making much more than 20 k near Mukdahan. And no, he isn't the kind of guy who would use a forged "degree" certificate. Besides, as an Aussie and at 20, he couldn't have completed a degree program at a university.

    Someone reported that immigration now wants time limits on "trainers'" contracts. Curricula consultant anyone?

    I find it strange that some guys have to verify their degrees while others (especially those from certain African countries) don't.

    If I was in charge of the TCT, I would implement American Culture Courses for Thai teachers and admin personnel. Moreover, foreign teachers would be screened and tested by us. Not a problem to subject each and every applicant to a long and thorough test. Q&A, essay writing, and a verbal test regarding the degree the applicant claims to have obtained.

    Sub 600 TOEIC score folks somehow make it. they cannot even speak proper English but who cares?!? Something is very wrong here. Henceforth, if you are a NES and capable, there should be a way for you to work!
     
  11. Rastus

    Rastus Well-Known Member

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    I know somebody without a degree working legally in Thailand teaching English. That's OK by me if it's legal.

    I don't think my friend is employed using a "loophole" in the law but if so, I suspect it is a very big loophole that is commonly known and is being used by a great number of people in Thailand.
     
  12. Gor Blimey Guvnur!

    Gor Blimey Guvnur! Thread Starter What the duck ! Staff Member

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    If you or your friend can enlighten us further then that would be great ..thx in advance:thumbsup2:
     
  13. Rastus

    Rastus Well-Known Member

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    I will probably not post the details because ...

    I don't want to make him unemployed and break up his family life (and as far as I know he is not breaking the law).
     
  14. Gor Blimey Guvnur!

    Gor Blimey Guvnur! Thread Starter What the duck ! Staff Member

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    ^ Don't be scared Rastus off by Gung's post ... we are talking in general terms here and if it is within the realm of the law then that is fine ...even if it were to be deemed something of a loophole then fine too.

    I'm fairly sure that the powers that be know of the loopholes already unlike Gung that thinks they don't, and I'm sure 'they' are not sitting on this website waiting for some Guava to tell them otherwise ..unlike what Gung may lead to imply.

    So please enlighten in very general and non-specific terms Rastus ..I can assure you it won't ruin anyone's life.
     
  15. trnwrk

    trnwrk Well-Known Member

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    van.jpg

    Don't fall for it Rastus. Run! Run as fast as you can..............

    van.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 26 Apr 2015

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