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My WP expired yesterday

Discussion in 'Work permits' started by Garden, 18 Jul 2014.

  1. Garden

    Garden Thread Starter Much ado about nothing

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    Dear Forum,

    Could you explain how the WP relates to my visa? Maybe ELI5 style (explain like I'm five), so popular on reddit.com

    Since my work permit is now expired, does that mean I WORK illegally or does it mean I STAY illegally in Thailand , or perhaps both?
    My visa does not expire for a couple of months.

    I have very little knowledge about *what to do or expect next*, because I am working at the same school for more than four years. Therefore, I never needed to question any of this. It was all taken care of, as it should be.

    I've heard the laws became tougher the last few month.

    The way my current situation came about is, that I am transferring schools this July, but apparently the paperwork isn't quite done yet.


    Cheers,
    Heiko
     
  2. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    Dear Heiko. The important question before a good answer is possible - what kind of visa/ extension of the permission of stay do you have?

    • type of permission of stay
    • expiration of permission of stay
    • expiration of the work permit
    • married to a Thai national or not?
     
  3. Garden

    Garden Thread Starter Much ado about nothing

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    Dear Stamp,

    thanks for looking into this.

    1. If I look at my passport, my visa is good until October. It is the regular year-to-year visa.
    2. It don't have an extension of a permission to stay, but I heard my future employer is working on this. It is not in my passport, though.
    3. Expiration of work permit was July-17
    4. Not married

    So what does it all mean?
     
  4. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    I really don't understand. Visa is good until October? Year-to-year? No extension of stay?

    What's your work permit based on then?
     
  5. Makaveli

    Makaveli aka 2Pac Staff Member

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    A work permit and visa run side by side, so there's no way the visa can run out and not the visa, the dates should be exactly the same between them both...
     
  6. ramses

    ramses Well-Known Member

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    mine don't. Heiko and I work in the same province. Previous experience that has been the case. My WP expires in a couple months, and my visa expires next year.
     
  7. Garden

    Garden Thread Starter Much ado about nothing

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    I have no clue either, but maybe this could help:

    It has been common practice in Chiang Rai province for at least the last two years, that a year-to-year visa and WP are out-of-sync by a couple of months. All my colleagues are out-of-sync, too. But nobody ever expired any of the two. The school admins take care of this. As long as the two documents overlap, it never was a problem. I also never questioned this practice. Maybe, that's a "specialty" of the North?


    What I'm trying to learn is what the consequences are for me. I have a visa, but no work permit anymore, because I am in the middle of changing employers. Perhaps the paperwork it just late (wishful thinking on my part).

    Surely, not having a WP right now is uncomfortable, but is my stay in Thailand affected?

    So let's keep it simple: Did the expiration of my work permit yesterday cancel out my year-to-year visa yesterday?

    If so, I have no extension of permission to stay in my passport, anyway. But the regular year-to-year visa is good until October.
    Since, I don't know, and never had to learn about the inter-relationship of a WP and visa, I simply don't know what the law says.

    I am so grateful you look into this.

    Does this help?

    Kind regards,
    Heiko

    - - - Updated - - -

    Meanwhile, I have consulted a friend of mine about the inter-relationship between WP and visa. He said, my visa is now void. He reckons, I should ask my future employer to take the next steps, since there is nothing I can do about it anymore.

    So as to answer my OP question, I am now both ill(redacted)lly working and ill(redacted)lly staying in Thailand. This should be fun.

    I am 100% confident it will work out somehow.

    Cheers,
    Heiko
     
  8. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    That's really strange as there are no visas that are valid for 1 year. :confused:

    A work permit is obtained based on either the visa/ extension of stay or the employment contract. An extension of stay is obtained based on holding a work permit or the employment contract. Below is how it works in our province.

    • The work permit is obtained based on having a valid permission of stay, regardless its expiration, and the employment contract.
    • The extension of stay is based on having a valid work permit and the employment contract.

    The expiration date of the employment contract = the expiration date of the work permit = the expiration date of the extension of stay.
     
  9. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    Normally if the work permit expires, the extension of the permission of temporary stay (based on employment) expires.

    You're on overstay since 17 July 2014. It'll cost 500 THB per day.
     
  10. Mister T

    Mister T Retired, fat and happy

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    Settle petal, you are giving us two different bits of information. You say you have a year to year visa and you don't have an extension of stay. If you have a year to year visa, you got it yourself outside of Thailand. If you have an extension of stay, your school processed it at the local immi office. Your extension of stay expires with your contract/employment, not with your work permit, but you would then be working illegally anyway.
     
  11. gungchang

    gungchang Well-Known Member

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    The school got my WP first and now I'm trying to extend my visa.

    My WP expires April 30, 2015 and my visa (for now) expires August 30, 2014.

    I think that the teaching license made the WP possible and the WP runs with my contract.

    Also, I'm on an O I procured with my marriage certificate.

    Back to Heiko, I must have missed this. What visa are you on, i.e, is it a Non-Im B?

    I had something similar happen, but this was in 1996. I left the school and turned in my WP in June. My visa ran until January. I left Thailand in November. There was no fine or even a hiccup at passport control. Of course, this was a long long time ago.

    When is your 90-day check-in? Won't they let you know if there's a problem?

    Perhaps you should now be more concerned about what the maximum overstay penalty is, and if you can be banned for a few months or not.
     
  12. Clown

    Clown Well-Known Member

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    Scary stuff - I've had a WP cancelled and that triggered an overstay that cost me a flight plus 20,000 B overstay fine plus 1,900 B for the 7 days extension and 100 B for photographs. With hindsight, I should have just left the country instead of waking up sleeping dogs

    Heiko, don't leave Thailand would be my advice. By leaving, then trying to come right back on some T-Visa, this is where you might encounter the kind of problems folks rant on Thai Visa about.

    My own situation is messy, now that the promised 12 months' contract has been changed to 10 months. That callous act alone will have enormous implications and serious repercussions for me, as I've been living here for years on back-to-back T-Visa before starting to teach. (With some school not providing WPs, others not even a B-Visa).

    The hapless worker caught working illegally will get fined 100,000 B and be deported. While the employer faces a 10,000 B fine.

    Am upset about them not looking into fake degrees and folks who cannot even speak English well enough to work as teachers. So this is how it's playing out? Some school likes you, so that barely 500 TOEIC score will do nicely. :happy1: And if the fake degree happens to be in education, then there won't be problems for the forseeable future?!? :clap:
     
  13. gungchang

    gungchang Well-Known Member

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    This pisses me off, too. I've put up with a lot of shit from people, but looking at the Top Three:

    Not one of them had a BA degree, or a home country credential, or a "real" TEFL cert (if any at all), or a license.

    Anyway, back to Heiko, I can only hope that Ramses knows Chiang Rai's way of doing things well enough to figure out how to avoid or at least minimize any fines or other inconveniences. Don't we have other people up there as well?
     
  14. Garden

    Garden Thread Starter Much ado about nothing

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    Dear Forum,

    I am glad to inform you that my future employer is going to rectify the situation.

    Knowing how to get things done is a powerful tool, often not visible or communicated to a teacher.

    What your numerous responses to this thread uncovered however is that a work permit and a visa can be out-of-sync and often they are.

    I have to say thanks to all.

    Godspeed.
    Heiko
     
    gungchang likes this.
  15. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    Please keep us posted. :happy1:
     

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