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In a complete rut - M.Ed., PGCE, QTS, Middle East?

Discussion in 'Qualifications & Courses' started by JBauer, 3 Jan 2017.

  1. Hey_ewe

    Hey_ewe Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I wasn't clear at all! =D

    What I meant to say was £155 x 4 = £620 which should be about £27k a month

    It's not a fortune but National Insurance contributions at the moment are about £700 a year, which is 31,000 THB a year, so it's worth keeping your NI contributions paid up to date so that you get a full state pension. The UK state pension age is likely to rise to 68 or maybe even higher by the time I retire but I still feel that it's worth it.
     
  2. SageAdvice

    SageAdvice Well-Known Member

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    I suppose not, Your Highness :smiling.
     
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  3. Hey_ewe

    Hey_ewe Well-Known Member

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    It just about pays for the upkeep of the grounds!

    If I save up enough, I might be able to afford a Christmas meal at the oriental! =D
     
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  4. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Well-Known Member

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    I'll give you what I know..

    From what I've read, you can't be over 60 as a male to get a Z Visa, however there is some flexibility. I have a good friend who turned 60 after he quit here. He tried to find work in China and had a very, very hard time. He got into a school where he knew the admin. His job was cut after a year and he then searched again in China.

    He had a very hard time getting anyone to hire him, let alone interview him. He went back to Canada, and a few months later, he got a job offer from a new opening school that is affiliated with my school in a more remote location of southern China. He got a job there and he seems to like it. He's turning 61 soon and he intends to stay for a few years at least before he retires.

    I think that if a school is new or in a more autonomous region it could be easier to get a job for the over 60 group. Apparently, I also read that for getting a Z visa for women the age cuts off at 55.
     
  5. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Well-Known Member

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    Good points.. the kids at least in London are often very badly behaved and that is putting it lightly. So along with all the paperwork, you have kids that basically rule the classroom to contend with. I'm glad my contract was for only six months. I left after that. I was offered the chance to get QTS status, and I declined. Looking back, I wonder if that would have helped me being in the international schools now. As I would be able to easily get into the British schools as well as the American/Canadian ones.
     
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  6. portnoy58

    portnoy58 Well-Known Member

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    You can ... a colleague of mine aged 62 came in from Vietnam where he had been teaching previously and prior to that in KSA. This is his first time in China. He was recruited aged 62 and has the full set: health certificate, foreign expert's certificate and now residence permit. I should add that the Z visa is necessary to get the residence permit. I should also add that we are located in the north Yangtse river delta area, approximately 2 hours north of Shanghai; so we are not in bandit country ...

    I am asserting this because I know it to be true in relation to this colleague. It's a fact. And I wouldn't want people to be put off trying to find work here by absolute statements of fact such as yours. Quite literally anything is possible in China. Here's the rub - there appears to be no rhyme or reason to how immigration implement the rules. Now that is not surprising in a country with a population of 1.4 billion. Much seems to depend on the whims of individual offices/officials and these are reported to change by the day if not by the hour. Also if your school has strong links to the bureaucracy and local education administration, (ours does, comrades), then that appears to work. In fact the process appears to have some remarkable some similarities to a well known S E Asian country.

    Schools of course will also use the vagaries of the system to offload you if they decide you're no good at what you do or they just don't like you. You might learn that they cannot get you a Z visa - don't take that as fact. This is what happened to me first time round. But, as is my nature, I became difficult and refused to part with my notarised/certificated credentials - copies would have been adequate pending my arrival in China with the originals. So having shelled out about 600 GBP for this process my fear was I might never see the documents or the notarisations again and that would have been unthinkable. Along came the next school. I explained where I was at. Their guy checked the system and reported all was ok and that they could apply on my behalf. I now have all the official paperwork. This was a blessing in disguise as I am on a better package and I think this job has some considerable potential in terms of career development and advancement.

    My advice is - give it your best shot, be hopeful, persevere and develop a bit of hard outer layer.
     
  7. Internationalteacher

    Internationalteacher Well-Known Member

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    Okay, but I also said there is some flexibility based on my friend who came back to China at 60. Did you even read my post?
    It is said that you have to be 60 or younger if you read websites, but it also says there is flexibility.. I'm guessing based on need more or less.
     
  8. Hey_ewe

    Hey_ewe Well-Known Member

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    The Chinese system sounds very much like Thailand. It does seem that more and more teachers are leaving Thailand for China and Vietnam. Never having lived there I couldn’t comment on the lifestyle but I do like the lifestyle in Thailand. Money isn’t everything, especially for those with children.

    What is very important, is that you plan for retirement. If you don’t already have some form of pension, then you really need to address that. The Thai government, is never going to support a group of retired immigrant workers, so you must have a way to support yourself. Many western governments are desperately trying to cut their welfare/pension budgets so help isn’t going to be forthcoming there either.

    I know several teachers who have nothing in the way of National Insurance contributions, no occupational pension, no savings...nothing. They piss their money up the wall every month, with no regard for the future. It’s not going to end well for them.

    Those who have made a career teaching in Thailand, could easily find themselves in old age poverty if they’re not careful. The Thai social security pension is 20% of your final salary, if you’ve paid in for 15 years. It goes up slightly with each additional year. You should check that your school is paying in and keep evidence. That’s going to be 7-10k a month which doesn’t stretch very far.
     
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  9. JBauer

    JBauer Thread Starter Member

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    Just to say, thanks for all of your contributions- it has been all most useful. I did get some PMs, and will reply to them asap.
     
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  10. muppetminder

    muppetminder Member

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    Yes. As someone that considers himself a highly marketable package in his mid fifties, Im well aware of my sell by date. It becomes very difficult to land decent jobs at 60+ thru no fault of one's own.

    Not saying it can't be done. I know a guy working at 65 plus. A ton of experience but not much of a package.

    My words were not necessarily meant to discourage but I would never invest in any education upgrade to teach here. If not your age perhaps twenty other variables for the investment in time and treasure to go south.

    Personally, I have addl options but I think approaching 60 I'd not invest in anything save for a sun chair and an ice cooler.
     
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  11. muppetminder

    muppetminder Member

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    Folks

    There are shitonna yobs in China if that's all ye searchin fer. All ye need is a pulse.

    I know a cranky fat guy here in Thailand who continues to work 65+ and his paper ain't even so hot.

    But to age. I'm over 55 and consider myself very marketable based on my CV, who I am, my degree, how I present myself, etc.

    I'm very selective about the ads I respond to and still my response rate is very high. When I send out a packet, I'm honestly shocked if I don't hear back.

    Recently we discussed that 70k KMIDS job, I was sent an app to apply.

    Sooooo....get your act together. Spend a few WEEKS tuning up your resume and a keep it there. Learn to write a winning cover letter.

    While the kids are great, honestly, the most fun I have in this second career is "catching the fish" and reeling it in.

    Write! Write! Write! Apply to every job just for practice.

    Last May I was being called by a chain school beginning and ending with S and they were begging me to work for them for 39.5k. I was literally telling them to F off, the money was shit and there were not on transit lines. Begging. 2x a day someone would call and beg, but never meet my salary requirements. I'd never work for that schlock school anyway.

    Another BKK top 5 also. Also had interest at Debsirin till they saw what I wanted, many other top schools.

    Three jobs, three yrs, three waivers and 55+ and all solid schools in EP etc programs. I've got my sites on a few more and I'll be done at 60.

    I'm warning that 60 is a definite barrier. But it's up to you. Myself, I would not invest if for no other reason than the whims and vagaries of the TCT.

    Not to mention there is almost no ROI.

    This whole racket will be dead in less than ten years.
     
    Last edited: 9 Jan 2017
  12. portnoy58

    portnoy58 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent call, I couldn't agree more, though in fairness there are a few who are very happy with them.
    I'm going to find out in about 15 months! My contract expires in June 2018 and my sixtieth falls in July 2018. So hopefully I'll get some inkling of my prospects about April/May 2018. My instinct is that I'll be renewed. However there are other factors about the school's long term viability and the possibility of the local education people changing their tune: we are located in a significant economic development area which means we get some seed money. The basic plan is to be able to attract inward investment with the spiel that there is an international school .....

    Fascinating times.
     
  13. covertjay

    covertjay Member

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    Have you tried a good EP school? They can pay up to 90k and a PGCEi is accepted by them as it gets a TCT license. As a homeroom teacher you may get the job satisfaction you seek and a bilingual education for your kid.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  14. stfranalum

    stfranalum Well-Known Member

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    ^ i've never heard of an EP paying that much. where do they do that?
     
  15. muppetminder

    muppetminder Member

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    Im working at a private, at 45k the money sucks for what is required. It will be a revolving door forever, sad. Lovely albeit lazy kids.

    Name two EP programs that pay 65k let alone 90. Lower tier Intl schools only pay 35-60/70

    My waiver situation is very tenuous, but I'm moving on. I'll take a year off, recharge, reorganize and maybe do a class or two if cheap enough.

    Ridiculous expectations for silly pittances.

    Funny, every year you become a better teacher. Every year you learn more about what environment you want to teach in.

    Yet, time is not on our side. The TCT rule while understandable in a fair, methodical, sane system is anything but.

    Thailand should offer foreign NES a boot camp for certification.

    When I see the horrors of Filipino and Thai teaching one cannot seriously state that a solid education from an NES country and a crash course in whatever would not be sufficient for this country.

    I have a feeling that TCT might not announce waiver change but they will allow 3+ waivers to persons with their act (paper) together.

    How assinine does this sound...Yeah, we understand the agency dicked you around, then the head teacher was mental, then your co-workers were alcoholics and perverts so you left. You have all your paperwork in order and I see you graduated from a top 100 university in the US but we cannot issue you a waiver because we have rules...

    I can't believe some NES are teaching for less than us1000 a month.
     
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