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Grammar question

Discussion in 'Classroom' started by Templeton, 14 Oct 2016.

  1. Templeton

    Templeton Thread Starter Member

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    "I was tired."

    I have a horrible time understanding past perfec/present perfect etc....I can read about it all day long. I don't get it. Anyway, all help is appreciated.
     
  2. SundayJam

    SundayJam Well-Known Member

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    Perfect tense simply means that what happened before affects the moment. This moment is different for past perfect in that it affects THAT moment in time. Present perfect affects this moment in time.
     
  3. Templeton

    Templeton Thread Starter Member

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    :worship
     
    Mati likes this.
  4. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA την σκαφην σκαφην λεγοντας

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    Grammar for the Lesson: Use the Present Perfect

    One use of the present perfect is for an action that started in the past and is still happening now. The example below is in the past perfect continuous.


    1. How long have you been living in Nakhon Phanom?


    started in the past=============>now


    สิ่งที่เกิดขึ้นในอดีตเป็นบางครั้งและตอนนี้ยังคงเกิดขึ้นอยู่


    Examples of Present Perfect:

    1. I have eaten Japanese food every day for three months.

    ฉันกินอาหารญี่ปุ่นมาสามเดือนแล้ว

    2. I have gone to Big-C every weekend since it opened.

    ฉันไปบิ๊กซีทุกวันหยุดสุดสัปดาห์ตั้งแต่มันเปิด

    3. He has gone to Mukdahan every day since one month ago.

    เขาไปมุกดาหารทุกวันตั้งแต่เดือนที่แล้ว

    4. They have called me every night since they left on vacation.

    พวกเขาโทรหาฉันทุกคืนตั้งแต่พวกเขาออกไปเที่ยวพักผ่อน


    But if an action ended at a specific time in the past, then use the simple past tense.


    My computer stopped working last Saturday.

    เครื่องคอมพิวเตอร์ของฉันเสียเมื่อวันเสาร์ที่แล้ว

    Yesterday my mother cooked chicken for dinner.

    เมื่อวานนี้แม่ของฉันทำเมนูไก่เป็นอาหารมื้อเย็น
     
  5. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA την σκαφην σκαφην λεγοντας

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    "I was tired" is simple past tense.

    Check out the attached documents. They are from my book. I hope this helps. I also attached a copy of the OEG.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA την σκαφην σκαφην λεγοντας

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    2. Aspect

    Simple, continuous, and perfective are the three aspects of the verb in English. Generally, aspect shows how the action or state denoted by the verb relates to completion (progressive aspect), continuity (perfect aspect), or repetition (habitual aspect). In English, the simple aspect is shown with a main verb. The continuous aspect uses to be + present participle. The perfective aspect is formed with has/have/had + past participle.
     
  7. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA την σκαφην σκαφην λεγοντας

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    Grammar for the Lesson: The Simple Past Perfect

    Think of the past perfect tense as the past of the past. The past perfect is formed by had + past participle. It often uses these words and phrases: by the time, until, till, previously, previous to that, up to then, and before.



    1. The past perfect denotes a completed action in the past prior to some other completed action.


    Completed action Some other completed action


    Had you learned English before you moved to Australia? Response: Yes, I had.


    I had finished my homework before you called me.


    By the time you called me, I had finished my homework.


    She had never eaten French food until she came to Paris.


    I had lived in Bangkok for three years before I found a job in Japan.


    Had they eaten before you arrived? Response: Yes, they had.


    I had been learning Chinese for six months before I moved to Beijing.


    2. The past perfect also denotes duration before some action in the past.


    I had ridden my motorbike for three years before it broke down.

    I rode my motorbike for three years before it broke down.

    I had ridden my motorbike for three years when it had broken down.


    By the time I finished my homework my sister had eaten the whole pizza.

    By the time I finished my homework my sister ate the whole pizza.

    By the time I had finished my homework my sister had eaten the whole pizza.


    It is important to mention that the accused had been a good employee for many years.



    3. The past perfect can denote that something was important at some time in the past.


    Action in the pastPrevious to this action in the past


    I could not start my motorbike. I had lost my key.

    He was not at home. He had gone to Tesco-Lotus.



    Specific times can be used with the past perfect when before or after clarify the order of events. Remember that the present perfect does not use specific times.


    Before he moved there, he had come to Nakhon Phanom on May 6, 1971.


    But the past perfect must be used if "the past of the past" does not refer to an action at a specific time.



    The tourist had never eaten somtam until he came to Thailand.

    The tourist never ate somtam until he came to Thailand.


    When I was born my parents had been married for six years.

    When I was born my parents were married for six years.


    4. Would rather and would sooner use the past perfect when they refer to an object and the situation referred to is in the past. If, if only, and wish also take the past perfect when in the subjunctive mood referring to the past.


    I wish I had known the answer to the final question on our last test.

    He would rather you had eaten instead of going away hungry.

    If only you had called me, you would have known.

    I wish it had not been raining for so long.


    5. The past perfect is often used in reported speech following verbs such as said, explained, thought, wondered, reflected, asked, told.


    I wondered if they had finished the project on time.

    She explained that they had closed the store early due to the sudden storm and heavy rain.

    They asked when we had eaten.
     
  8. GanDoonToonPet

    GanDoonToonPet Well-Known Member

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  9. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA την σκαφην σκαφην λεγοντας

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    It is very good to ask questions, and it might take guts to do so. I think that one can still be a good teacher without understanding English grammar backwards and forwards. But it is good to fill in the gaps. Here in China, there are many teachers whose job is just to speak English well and offer that to the students. They do not have to be experts in grammar, and everyone thinks of these teachers as valuable and professional.

    This question about the present perfect and past perfect is really interesting. Perfective aspect is especially challenging. The point is the difference between "I was tired," which is simple past, and "I have been tired," which is present perfect simple. "I had been tired," is past perfect simple.

    Please see the attachments above. There is an explanation of what the present perfect amounts to. It is mostly used to talk about life experience ("I have been to Tokyo three times."), unfinished time ("Have you seen her today?"), to speak of an action that (1) started in the past and is still going on now, or (2) has recently stopped or been completed. The simple present perfect can also refer to an action that has not yet happened!

    Its most interesting use, in my opinion, is to show that an action that happened in the past is important at the current moment: "I have lost my key, and I cannot get into my car."

    So keep plugging away at it.
     
    Last edited: 15 Oct 2016
  10. Templeton

    Templeton Thread Starter Member

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    Thanks for the help.
     
  11. gungchang

    gungchang Well-Known Member

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    Keeping it simple (pun acknowledged but not intended):

    Past Simple is the definite past tense.
    You know when an action happened.
    I went to Singapore last August.

    Present Perfect is the indefinite past tense.
    You don't know when an action happened.
    I have been to Singapore.

    To use the present perfect, the action must be able to repeat.
    Living persons: He has been to Singapore.
    Deceased Persons: He went to Singapore.

    Assuming you're going to teach this, my axiom is that if the students could understand a grammar lecture/explanation, they wouldn't be in the class. Put examples in context.
     
  12. Templeton

    Templeton Thread Starter Member

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    Got it. I understand the grammar but never seem to be able to explain it.

    Moving along though, anyone have experience teaching one class for 6 hours straight???? can I give them a two hour break??
     
  13. Mr. Chips

    Mr. Chips Active Member

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    In my most humblest of opinions, I try to stay away from teaching "perfect" tenses. This only pertains to the gov't school scenario. I find it best in keeping it simple.
    For ex:
    I ate at this restaurant before.
    vs
    I have eaten at this restaurant before.
    This is done to drive in the most regularly used past tense verbs first....then move on to perfect.
    Maybe it's just me (with my geniuses).

    Comments and constructive criticisms welcome.
     
  14. marcusb

    marcusb Active Member

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    always great questions Templeton… like this gem

    Alcohol before a class? - Page 6
     
  15. Templeton

    Templeton Thread Starter Member

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    Yeah, it was.
     

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