1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Another Grammar Question

Discussion in 'Classroom' started by DavidUSA, 16 Oct 2016.

  1. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2014
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    357
    (A) Following the verb want, can we use a modal verb in an objective clause which begins with that? (B) Also, can we use the simple future (the modal auxiliary will) in an objective clause with that, when it follows the verb want?

    For example:
    (A)
    I want that she can call me tomorrow.
    Your mother wants that you should leave Aleppo now.
    We want that you might help us.
    I want that you can be happy.
    (B)
    I want that you will become a physician.
    I want that you will call me.

    1. Are those sentences above incorrect? If so, why?

    Observations:

    --If we drop the that, then the sentences are obviously wrong.

    I want you will become a physician.

    --Those objective that phrases could work as subjects with no difficulty.


    That you should leave Aleppo now ought to be obvious to you, dummy.

    --The sentences above are not how people talk. But I do not know if they are incorrect. If we change the verb to hope, then most of the sentences make perfect sense. Why the difference?

    Help.


    More Examples:
    I wanted that you would call me.
    I wanted that you could go on vacation.
     
    Last edited: 16 Oct 2016
  2. Wangsuda

    Wangsuda Nonentity Staff Member

    Joined:
    2 Dec 2010
    Messages:
    3,259
    Likes Received:
    362
    While grammatically correct (IMO, but I'm a math teacher), why teach that?
    Could be better said as "I want her to call me tomorrow."

    As you said, we don't talk that way. Is this something you are required to teach? Seems archaic English is really making a comeback. I've noticed this at my school too.

    Sorry for the partial derailment.
     
    Gor Blimey Guvnur! likes this.
  3. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2014
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    357
    Thanks for your input. I am not teaching it. I just want to know if it is correct or not, and why. I cannot figure this one out.
    I am very interested in grammar. Thanks.
     
  4. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    5,592
    Likes Received:
    656
    That I have seen far worse in the o-net tests, would suggest a need. (as an example of the crazy stuff which grade 12 students are tested on).

    But....

    Would also, with respect, add that for the more advanced learner wishing to continue his or her studies at British universities, this kind of language is essential.

    Sadly, going beyond the english of conversation is a step many, even NES, never make.

    Again off topic, sorry or rather... that I wish to express my apologies, should be noted.
     
  5. Templeton

    Templeton Member

    Joined:
    10 Oct 2016
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    7
    I want that I understand the question....I had a math teacher once who told me English had no rules and that's why he liked math. Honestly I understand grammar and punctuation better than I probably show in any forum because I don't proofread and use my phone more than a computer to participate. That being said....

    I want that I understand this post.

    Woe is I....for I am always confused with grammar points.:confused
     
  6. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2014
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    357
    I suppose that want cannot take an objective clause beginning with that. Other verbs such as hope, insist, recommend, etc. can take such a clause. Want should take to + infinitive for its complement, I suppose.

    On ther other hand, the statement above by Templeton sounds as if it were correct. I can imagine that statement being said in a very formal situation. In fact, I think it is rather wonderful. Maybe people used this kind of construction long ago. I do not know.

    I recommend that you buy a new coat. I recommend that you should buy a new coat.

    I hope that you can call me.

    I want that you go. I want you to go. I want to go.

    I want that you stop.

    I want that you eat. I wanted that you could eat.

    I want her to call me tomorrow. I will want that you could have called me.

    Your mother wants you to leave Aleppo now.
     
  7. SundayJam

    SundayJam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    27 Jul 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    149
    I am a grammar Nazi.

    English should never be english...ever. It's a proper noun for chrissakes.

    In your original post both A and B examples are wrong.

    Otherwise, want and hope are suppositions in which case you should use modals: would, could, should...etc....

    Also, consider using infinitives of purpose: I want you to stop...I want you to go...
     
  8. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    5,592
    Likes Received:
    656
    I has a friend called Chris once, think his birthday was ....
     
    SundayJam likes this.
  9. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2014
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    357
    OK, thanks for your input. So please tell me: is A incorrect? Why is B iincorrect? Thanks.

    A. I hope that you will become a physician.
    B. I want that you will become a physician.
    C. I hope you become a physician.
    D. I want you to become a physician.


    A sounds correct to me, but B sounds incorrect.
     
  10. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    5,592
    Likes Received:
    656
    both sound natural to me
     
  11. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2014
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    357


    "To put left english on
    the ball, you aim right-of-center, and use
    the same gestures, physical effort..."

    "I know I can put top and backspin on the ball in Wii Sports Tennis,
    but the computer seems able to english (left and right spins) the ball. Can humans do it, or is it something only the computer can do?"

    And, profoundly, "English should never be english...ever."
     
  12. sirchai

    sirchai Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    21 Jul 2012
    Messages:
    1,677
    Likes Received:
    477
    Even as a NNES I'd say that all four are correct.


    I've just found a nice tool and will install it in a second.

    But why do you have the feeling that B is incorrect? Using either, "hope", or "want" doesn't make the sentence wrong.

    Please see: Instant Grammar Check - Plagiarism Checker - Online Proofreader | Grammarly
     
    DavidUSA likes this.
  13. SundayJam

    SundayJam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    27 Jul 2014
    Messages:
    329
    Likes Received:
    149
    LOLZ You changed the examples. My explanation was less the exemplary which is why I normally research/review a topic before I attempt to explain/teach. Of your alternate choices, only B is incorrect...this is true.

    Okay...you got me. However, once again, the context has changed. This is a completely different word with a different definition.
     
  14. DavidUSA

    DavidUSA Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2014
    Messages:
    685
    Likes Received:
    357
    I really appreciate your comments. In those sentences above, I think B is incorrect. The problem is that I do not know why. Can anyone tell me why B is incorrect?
     
  15. tiredtony

    tiredtony Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    9 Feb 2011
    Messages:
    2,842
    Likes Received:
    206
    You hope that something happens, but you want something to happen. It's very obvious B is wrong.
     
    DavidUSA likes this.

Share This Page