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สังหรณ์ Foreshadowing

Discussion in 'Thai Language' started by chrgrims, 25 Jul 2013.

  1. chrgrims

    chrgrims Thread Starter New Member

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    สังหรณ์ sanghon translates to a kinda rare English word, foreshadowing. But to sanghon in thailand is very common. An example is: i bought a new car and joked with the seller that i will crash in the first intersection. Thats sanghon and thais dont like it! they think it can create the event itself.
     
  2. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks, chrgrims. :thumbsup2:
     
  3. crew

    crew Faber College Member

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    is it really foreshadowing though? and isn't foreshadowing most typically used as a literary, or story-telling device?

    i understand สังหรณ์ to be more of a 'feeling' or 'to sense' when most typically speaking of troubling events.

    in my limited language skills i might translate 'foreshadow', or more simply, 'to indicate', into a word like บ่งบอก (bong bawk).

    not too sure though...
     
  4. Meanjin

    Meanjin Active Member

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    From the Longdo online dictionary:

    สังหรณ์ [V] forebode, See also: presage, have a premonition, Syn. สังหรณ์ใจ, Example: ผมสังหรณ์บางอย่างในใจว่า ผมอาจเป็นรายต่อไปที่ถูกทำร้าย, Thai definition: รู้สึกคล้ายมีอะไรมาดลใจ ทำให้รู้ว่าจะมีเหตุเกิดขึ้น
    สังหรณ์ใจ [V] have a presentiment, See also: have a premonition, Example: วันนั้นผมไม่ได้สังหรณ์ใจเลยว่าจะเป็นโอกาสที่ได้คุยกับท่านเป็นครั้งสุดท้าย, Thai definition: รู้สึกคล้ายกับมีอะไรมาดลใจ, Notes: (บาลี/สันสกฤต)

    The example given above for สังหรณ์ is the one about anticipating having an accident, similar to chrghims's example. For สังหรณ์ใจ (sanghornjai), they give the example "I never expected/had any idea/had any presentiment when I spoke with him that day that it would be the last time".

    Openly anticipating the worst is something Thai people frown upon, I think. For many years at our school in Bangkok, in the middle of a built up area and butting up against flimsy wooden buildings and small factories, fire drills were never held because, as I was told, the drill could have the effect of bringing on a fire. It took two significant fires in neighbouring buildings, one of which missed the school by a whisker, to initiate fire drills.
     
  5. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Well-Known Member

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    this time i will win the lottery.... let's see if it works, shall we?
     
  6. NODIIT

    NODIIT Well-Known Member

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    This time you will certainly not win the lottery.

    :smile2:

    Now you're little experiment is screwed...
     
  7. chrgrims

    chrgrims Thread Starter New Member

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    yes, its an interesting word. my teacher said it can be used about positive events too. e.g.

    -pom dja bpen mor
    -kon sanghon dee!

    which would be somewhat similar to the western "if you think you can do it you can". which of course can cause a lot of problems, like people thinking the only reason people cant do something is because they didnt think they could do it.

    if foreshadowing is mostly used about literary things in English, it could be simply because sanghon is so foreign to our thinking that we dont need it very often in its thai sense.
     
  8. Stamp

    Stamp Administrator Staff Member

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    On a side note, my mother who is from Indonesian descent, thinks similar. :happy1:
     
  9. slamb

    slamb Active Member

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    That's what we English would term 'jinxing it'. :smile2:

    If somebody says to you 'I hope you don't fail your TCT tests this time', you'd reply 'don't jinx me, man'. :smile2:

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just consulted my usual dictionary & came up with:

    สังหรณ์ใจ = feel it in your bones

    ลางสังหรณ์ = hunch

    http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/1405890.html
     
  10. chrgrims

    chrgrims Thread Starter New Member

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    yes, jinxing is def similar. but jinxing is mostly when about good things maybe?, e.g.

    -tiger woods is the best putter in the world, this one is easy for him
    (tiger misses)
    -you jinxed him, you fool!

    i think translating sanghon with hunch misses the point of the word as used in thai. its the process of where you help create an event simpy by talking about it.

    btw, my mom is American:clap:
     
  11. ramses

    ramses Well-Known Member

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    true ... when my wife was pregnant we went shopping for baby needs (clothes, diapers, wipes, bottles, linens, cradle, and such. My wife called her mom to ask a question (I forget what about now), and my mother-in-law told my wife not to buy anything until after the baby was born, or else the baby would come out deformed.

    Yesterday I took a group of 14 kids on a field trip to Mae Sai. On the way back one of the kids (NES) started talking about the van having an accident. My wife said that if he were a Thai kid and travelling with Thais, he would most certainly be scolded for talking that way (if not slapped on the back of the head), because he would cause the van to have an accident.

    In both cases, I think it is more akin to jinxing than to having a hunch...
     
  12. bahn_farang

    bahn_farang Well-Known Member

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    How about when you tell someone to "break a leg" is there a reverse jinx for good luck?
     
  13. ramses

    ramses Well-Known Member

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    that would appear to be the case, as in theatre (where the phrase is most commonly used) to wish someone luck is bad luck ...

    imagine being a superstitious thespian in Thailand ...

    - - - Updated - - -

    perhaps the idea of creating an event simply by suggesting it is what is up with all the 'good luck' you hear everywhere in thailand...
     
  14. crew

    crew Faber College Member

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    a nice discussion, folks. i would love to see more of this type of thread.

    translation is one thing but interpretation is a different kettle of ปลา, and as such, always lends itself to debate.
     

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